NewB needs a tune

[Bell040]

I did a bunch or searching and finally just had to register to ask this question.

I have a 2010 Camaro SS LS3. I am installing LT headers, HF cats, and a racing CAI (Vararam "Tune Version") in a couple of weeks. My only real concern is turning the cat efficiency code off.... And I am a little concerned with the new CAI bucking and throwing codes. I am pretty good with PCs and electronics.



Be honest...

1) Do I need to buy tuning hardware (or software)?

2) If so, are there real advantages to using HP tuners over the handheld units?

3) Disadvantages?



I was close to purchasing a diablosport predator for ~$300, but then I figured I should do some homework.

The way it works with the predator is that I buy the unit, save the current stock calibrations to the unit, download a "93 octane tune" to the vehicle, do a few datalogging runs at different RPM shifts, send the data file to a racing shop, they send me a custom tune.... and finally I install that tune to my car.

4) What is this process with HP tuners?

[DSteck]

Where are you located?

[Bell040]

Where are you located?

Alabama

[Bell040]

hptuners is a tool and like all tools knowing how to use the tool and why to is key. Box's that have a tune you can upload are no different then putting a set of plugs in. ie; click yes for 93 octane, click no for tire or gear change. now having hptuners is like being able to design a new plug from the ground up. ie; at 3000rpm and 45map I want to add 1% more fuel.

if you just want to click yes or no I would say have a shop tune it. if you want to be blown away at what you can adjust and love to read and learn then hptuners is for you.

Just what I needed to hear. Thanks!

Now, which product do I buy? the scanner or the suite? i.e. can I change A/F ratio with the scanner? tune out the cat efficiency code?

[informationjunkie]

hptuners is a tool and like all tools knowing how to use the tool and why to is key. Box's that have a tune you can upload are no different then putting a set of plugs in. ie; click yes for 93 octane, click no for tire or gear change. now having hptuners is like being able to design a new plug from the ground up. ie; at 3000rpm and 45map I want to add 1% more fuel.

if you just want to click yes or no I would say have a shop tune it. if you want to be blown away at what you can adjust and love to read and learn then hptuners is for you.

great way to describe it.

scanner just shows you what your pcm/tcm is doing. ie; watch tv. Suite is the way to go. ie; make a movie and watch it. Then you might want the pro as you can then hook up your other tool.. Wide Band.

yes, get the pro and don't look back.

[Bell040]

Thanks for helping the new guy! Some other tuner forums aren't so helpful.

few more questions:

I was told by Vararam that I would need to tune immediately because I would be running over 4% too rich on the road with the CAI and headers... and this will cause significant drivability issues. I suppose that it will take some time to learn the HP Tuners software, but I may not have time if the drivability is really that bad. Maybe I just need to pull the trigger now (buy it) and play with the software without the car before I do my mods.

1) Does this sound like a good idea? Or is there anything to learn without connecting it to the car?

2) Is there a tutorial anywhere?

3) Some of the handhelds mount in the car like a GPS. HP Tuners needs to run with a laptop. Do you guys just mount the laptop in the car permanently? Or, do you only pull out the laptop when you want to make a change to something (like when you add a mod)?

[DSteck]

To answer your last question, I just toss my laptop on the passenger seat when I'm tuning. When I'm done, I take the interface, cables, and laptop out of the car and back into my house.

[informationjunkie]

Thanks for helping the new guy! Some other tuner forums aren't so helpful.

few more questions:

I was told by Vararam that I would need to tune immediately because I would be running over 4% too rich on the road with the CAI and headers... and this will cause significant drivability issues. I suppose that it will take some time to learn the HP Tuners software, but I may not have time if the drivability is really that bad. Maybe I just need to pull the trigger now (buy it) and play with the software without the car before I do my mods.

1) Does this sound like a good idea? Or is there anything to learn without connecting it to the car?

2) Is there a tutorial anywhere?

3) Some of the handhelds mount in the car like a GPS. HP Tuners needs to run with a laptop. Do you guys just mount the laptop in the car permanently? Or, do you only pull out the laptop when you want to make a change to something (like when you add a mod)?

1. i would just order now but that is just me. look here in the forum for lots of information for you to learn.
2. http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9700
3.

To answer your last question, I just toss my laptop on the passenger seat when I'm tuning. When I'm done, I take the interface, cables, and laptop out of the car and back into my house.

this is what i do but without the toss

[2010SSRS]

i too have a 2010 Camaro LS3 and plan on buying mine soon. i just installed Kooks long tubes, Corsa and Rotofab CAI.

i'm going with HPTuners because of this site, support, repository and flexability.

and, if i'm not mistaken, with the handhelds, there are certain things you can't do, like shut off the rear o2 sensors......i could be wrong, but that's what i've read.

[Mep_q8]

with the handhelds u can, but if u don't wanna buy the kit, why don't u get a mail order tune?? they'll disable all the codes and give u a great tune to have fun with

[DSteck]

this is what i do but without the toss

Smartass.

[BBA]

I would say do not buy a handheld unless you have a stock car and leave it stock. There is no one good tune for car X with any given combination of mods running in any given local with any given fuel type/availability.

See where I am going? Either get HPT/EFI Live and learn it (and you will be much happier if you decide to go this route) or go to a local tune/dyno shop and have someone do it for you, which will usually end up costing you more than the HPT interface would in the long run.

Flat out: I picked HPT because it was less expensive than EFI Live and I have really gotten my money's worth out of it...not to mention it's paid for itself by nature of being able to tune other peoples cars. Plus, I don;t have to make appointments and spend more money when I do a mod.

BTW: Something is wrong with what you wrote or what Vararam told you: I have never seen a case where adding headers and a CAI will make a car run richer, it's usually making it run leaner causing fuel trims to go beyond limits, then throwing a DTC as a result.

[Bell040]

I would say do not buy a handheld unless you have a stock car and leave it stock. There is no one good tune for car X with any given combination of mods running in any given local with any given fuel type/availability.

See where I am going? Either get HPT/EFI Live and learn it (and you will be much happier if you decide to go this route) or go to a local tune/dyno shop and have someone do it for you, which will usually end up costing you more than the HPT interface would in the long run.

Flat out: I picked HPT because it was less expensive than EFI Live and I have really gotten my money's worth out of it...not to mention it's paid for itself by nature of being able to tune other peoples cars. Plus, I don;t have to make appointments and spend more money when I do a mod.

BTW: Something is wrong with what you wrote or what Vararam told you: I have never seen a case where adding headers and a CAI will make a car run richer, it's usually making it run leaner causing fuel trims to go beyond limits, then throwing a DTC as a result.

Thanks,

I am probably backwards on the richer vs. leaner thing... like I said... I am a newb to this whole ordeal.

I was just hoping there would be a way to watch all the different gauges when driving around... not just when the laptop was in the car on the passenger seat logging data. I anticipate bucking, and would like to watch the guages when it happens.

[BBA]

Thanks,

I am probably backwards on the richer vs. leaner thing... like I said... I am a newb to this whole ordeal.

I was just hoping there would be a way to watch all the different gauges when driving around... not just when the laptop was in the car on the passenger seat logging data.

I think a real tuner is best and if you want to watch parameters when driving, get a dash hawk or something similar. And the right tune will not have any bucking.

[Bell040]

Another thanks,

That's what I needed to see... this "dash hawk" thingy.

now... I wonder if I could use the diablosport "InTune" without installing the tune (and use my HPT tune only). It is much more sleaker than the DashHawk.

http://www.diablosport.com/index.php...wtopic&t=20810

[markislive]

Read around the forum on topics like 'how to calibrate your MAF sensor with a wideband", this is what you will need to do to correct your AFR after installing those mods. If it seems over the top at 1st have a nearby shop with HPTuners tune it for you. You could always buy HPTuners and take over the tune as you learn more about it. You will need a datalogger anyway right, VCM scanner comes with it...

In the mean time you will have a fast and "safe" tune for that nice new ride : )

Whatever route you go be sure to get your AFR checked out to be safe after installing those mods...

PS...Varram RAM Air intake made my previous vehicle run 10% leaner.

[Bell040]

Well, I am a little confused.

So I need a wideband O2 sensor to correctly calibrate it? Would this mean that I need the "Pro" version scanner ($649), new wideband O2 sensors ($249 x 2), and new exhaust ports for the o2 sensors ($??)?

I was hoping to buy and learn the software for a couple weeks "off the car", and then get someone to help me with the first tune (like one of you guys or a tuning shop).... or at least look over what I want to do before I actually flash it.

All I really want to do is:
1) correct the AF ratio and fuel-trims (with help from you smart tuner guys),
2) monitor sensor gages for these parameters and others that I can't usually see (yes, I am an engineer ),
2) disable skip shift, and
3) turn of the post-cat 02 sensors (or at least the CEL code that it throws).

Can I not do all this with the standard VCM suite version ($499)? standard scanner only ($349)?
Just how "un-safe" is this... if you can always go back to the stock tune?

[BBA]

You do not NEED a wideband to tune for the mods although it does make it easy. You can do it with the standard vcm suite. There are several methods to tune using narrowband only, I made a guide on how I do it and posted it here as well...just search.

[murphinator]

Well, I am a little confused.

So I need a wideband O2 sensor to correctly calibrate it? Would this mean that I need the "Pro" version scanner ($649), new wideband O2 sensors ($249 x 2), and new exhaust ports for the o2 sensors ($??)?

I was hoping to buy and learn the software for a couple weeks "off the car", and then get someone to help me with the first tune (like one of you guys or a tuning shop).... or at least look over what I want to do before I actually flash it.

All I really want to do is:
1) correct the AF ratio and fuel-trims (with help from you smart tuner guys),
2) monitor sensor gages for these parameters and others that I can't usually see (yes, I am an engineer ),
2) disable skip shift, and
3) turn of the post-cat 02 sensors (or at least the CEL code that it throws).

Can I not do all this with the standard VCM suite version ($499)? standard scanner only ($349)?
Just how "un-safe" is this... if you can always go back to the stock tune?

a single wideband is what is common , on your application I believe one bank is known to tend to run leaner than the other bank and thats the one you would install the wideband in.

you can log a wideband with a standard interface through ac or egr - someone else with your platform should advise you whats typical.

Pro version logs more info than standard does - search for an exact explanation but you will get more data

the vcm scanner only ($349) will not have any editing capability allthough it can be upgraded to add it later. It can only scan , log , clear codes , manage vcm controls

[Bell040]

OK.... I took your advise.... kinda,

I have a Vararam CAI (tune version) and LT headers (2010 Camaro SS LS3). I have been running with these mods for about a month with no tune, and I don’t have a CEL as of yet. However the car bucks a little at cruising speeds and decel. Also, I get a pretty major and repeatable "putt" at WOT when entering 2nd gear at >5000 RPM. I am sure that the "putt" will really put a damper on my track times.

After a bunch of research (mostly here on HPTuners), I decided to get a WB O2 sensor permanently welded into the exhaust (drivers side). My thinking was that if I could watch the AFR for a while... I would be able to tell if it is going lean or rich during these problem areas. Then I would decide to either get HPtuners or a canned diablo or vector tune once I got a feel for the complexity of the ECMs algorithm. I would much rather have HPTuners... but I dont want to jump into a snake pit.

problem is.... I just got the WB sensor installed (XD-16 / LC-1) and the AFR seems to jump all over the place. At idle it is pretty steady, but at any kind of cruising speed... it is jumping from 11 to 18 AFR. In 3 seconds it might jump from 12 to 17 three or four different times. A jump to over 17 AFR usually causes a "buck"... and it seems like the ECM the reacts and sends the AFR shooting in the other direction... torwards 10 or 11.

One thing I can tell is that the AFR hangs out more in the lean area during decel and more in the rich area during heavy throttle.

Questions:

1) Does a WB in a stock car run like this, or is it my mods?
2) Is this an easy fix in HP tuners?

note: the Vararam is suspect to give false MAF readings.