6l80e with 3000rpm converter. wont stay locked. pulsing.

[parish8]

i have tried playing with the applied presure rate and that didn't help. the tcc pressure slowly drops till the kicks out of lock up and then it locks back up again.

it is most notisable at very light throttle but also does it under slight acceleration. i havent tried getting into it yet.

here is a screen shot.

[madvette08]

Have you adjusted the TCC Apply Ramp tables?

Ian

[parish8]

Have you adjusted the TCC Apply Ramp tables?

Ian

i have tried three things with that table. one was stock numbers. next was fill the entire table with "40". last i filled the entire table in with "80".

no change in the problem. looks like i can go as high as 148 on that table. should that table fix my problem?

[Atomic]

try putting the min duty cycle table for the tcc at 99% and the max table at 100%

[madvette08]

The 6 speeds dont have the Max/Min tables like the 4-Speeds which are controled by a % and TPS. The 6-speeds are based on how much slippeage the TCM sees, then tells the TCC PC Solenoid to apply the correct pressure to the lock up clutch.

Parish8,

Look to see first if you have any misfires as this can cause the converter to unlock.

If you look at a truck with the 6l80 you will notice that they have 100 psi in the high torque ranges. I added a screen shot of a G8 table that modifed, try setting up your table the same way.

Ian

[parish8]

The 6 speeds dont have the Max/Min tables like the 4-Speeds which are controled by a % and TPS. The 6-speeds are based on how much slippeage the TCM sees, then tells the TCC PC Solenoid to apply the correct pressure to the lock up clutch.

Parish8,

Look to see first if you have any misfires as this can cause the converter to unlock.

If you look at a truck with the 6l80 you will notice that they have 100 psi in the high torque ranges. I added a screen shot of a G8 table that modifed, try setting up your table the same way.

Ian

thanks for the help. i will give those settings a try tonight and report back.

[bluegoat06]

The 6 speeds dont have the Max/Min tables like the 4-Speeds which are controled by a % and TPS. The 6-speeds are based on how much slippeage the TCM sees, then tells the TCC PC Solenoid to apply the correct pressure to the lock up clutch.

Parish8,

Look to see first if you have any misfires as this can cause the converter to unlock.

If you look at a truck with the 6l80 you will notice that they have 100 psi in the high torque ranges. I added a screen shot of a G8 table that modifed, try setting up your table the same way.

Ian

Madvette, is the slippage we see on the apply ramp table is based on TCC desired slip rpm or TCC slip rpm Pid's ?

[bluegoat06]

Never mind, you said it was based on the slippage the TCM sees, so it must be TCC Slip RPM.

[parish8]

The 6 speeds dont have the Max/Min tables like the 4-Speeds which are controled by a % and TPS. The 6-speeds are based on how much slippeage the TCM sees, then tells the TCC PC Solenoid to apply the correct pressure to the lock up clutch.

Parish8,

Look to see first if you have any misfires as this can cause the converter to unlock.

If you look at a truck with the 6l80 you will notice that they have 100 psi in the high torque ranges. I added a screen shot of a G8 table that modifed, try setting up your table the same way.

Ian

i tried it. didn't help. made it a little worse. with these settings it would drop out just like before but take longer to get locked back up. seemed more confused than ever.

i am also trying to tune for a cam. so far not getting very far but i have figured a few things out.

i had to kill upshift tm. the timing drop of the shifts really made the car stumble. i needed it before but with the loose converter the shifts are nice and soft. no wot yet, just ~50% throttle, 65kpa max.

looks like i am going to need to kill the downshift tm too. when shifting from 5-4 it pulls timing and stumbles bad.

at exactly 70mph the converter will stay locked. no pulsing at all. i didn't log tcc presure then so i cant say for sure what it was doing but all the times it is falling out of lock up the line pressure is slowly falling. i am betting the pressure is holding steady in the 40psi+ range but i will get back to everyone on that. let the mph fall to 68mph and it slips in and out of lock.

so, kill upshift tm, probably kill downshift tm, no lock up till 70mph. the car is starting to be driveable. if the lock up worked at 50 or even 55mph i would be ok with it but there are lots of times i am going under 70mph.

now it is time to work on the cam tuning. it is mild so shouldn't be much more than getting the fueling right and checking the timing.

this must be a problem for the trucks and camaros right? if the camaros are seeing the problem i bet finding the tables to make this work work will become a higher priority.

[camaro1]

do you have your misfire codes disabled?,, i have a yank 3200 and a cammed camaro and have no tcc issues, i have tcc come on only at 50+mhp and no wot tcc, all tm off, i have not touched the apply tables yet,, that beta came out after i put the car away for winter

[parish8]

do you have your misfire codes disabled?,, i have a yank 3200 and a cammed camaro and have no tcc issues, i have tcc come on only at 50+mhp and no wot tcc, all tm off, i have not touched the apply tables yet,, that beta came out after i put the car away for winter

i do not have them disabled. it is not setting any codes. my cam is tiny. 560ish/220ish 115

is it posiable that you have a converter that is ok with pw modulation?

[madvette08]

Log TCC line pressure and montior it . Did you modify the TCC apply speeds for 6th gear lock up?

Ian

[parish8]

Log TCC line pressure and montior it . Did you modify the TCC apply speeds for 6th gear lock up?

Ian

i will get some data. maybe tomorrow but it is suppose to snow.

i have been moving the lock up speed up to get it more driveable. 1-4 it is off. 5th and 6th i have it on at 55 and off at 50 in all cells except for 0tps, that cell i have it on at 300 and off at 295.

it is working pretty good but isn't quite right yet. for some reason if i let mosty off the gas it will unlock, then relock when i get back on it. i am talking rolling down the highway and going up and down small hills. uphill it will lock and down hill or flat and it will unlock. i tired filling in the 0 tps slot with the 55 on and 55 off but that gave me an unpleasant bucking while slowing down but did keep it locking other than the pulsing that i posted above.

i am not sure why that 0 tps slot even does anything since i see something like 16% minimum tps. i suspect the bucking may be the same locking/unlocking problem that i originaly posted about.

[parish8]

here are 65mph, 70mph and an attempted wot screen shots. i have tried bumping a pile of the pressure tables with no effect but i really have no idea what i am doing.

i should be able to lock this at wot correct?

what table would effect the wot tcc pressure?

i see almost 100psi right before it slips. i am guessing the comptuter sees it start to slip and shuts it off to keep it alive? should 100psi of tcc pressure be enough to keep it locked at wot? this a camed and boosted 6.0 at 7+psi. converter is a circle D tripple disk.

[camaro1]

i dont know about circle d converters but yank says no wot tcc,,

also i think there were some other post's about triple disc converters not working with pwm,, maybe there is something to that, my yank single disc works perfect with the tcc commands,,

but im not trying to lock it at wot, yank said right out to not lock there converters at wot, even though the factory tuning has them locked at low speeds and wot, following this mine works great

[parish8]

i dont know about circle d converters but yank says no wot tcc,,

also i think there were some other post's about triple disc converters not working with pwm,, maybe there is something to that, my yank single disc works perfect with the tcc commands,,

but im not trying to lock it at wot, yank said right out to not lock there converters at wot, even though the factory tuning has them locked at low speeds and wot, following this mine works great

the tripple and 5 disks are designed to be locked at wot. i locked up my tripple disk precision all the time with 1000rwhp in a 5000lb truck. no issues at all.

there have been issues getting the multi disk converters to work with the pwm. i thought the newest tables that give you access to the apply rates fixed this problem but it looks like that was an incorrect assumption.

i thought the lock up issue was just at cruise and the wot still worked. it is starting to look like that was another incorrect assumption but that part could just be that i havent adjusted the right table yet.

if i cant use the lock up at wot or cruise then i definately have the wrong converter. might need to get a tighter unit with a single disk that can handle pwm. i really liked having the wot lock up option in my truck.

it would be nice if one of the hptuners guys would chime in and let us know if they are working on more tables. if they might have some things to try in the next few months i will just live with it till there is a fix. you know the camaro guys will be asking for the tables so maybe that will put it at a higher priority?

[transam_151]

I dont see y the tabels should be adjusted for the lock up pressure. The circle d is smaller than stock circumfrence wise... 100 is plenty to keep it lock. had a friend with a circle d and it was a piece. kept unlocking no matter what. sent back several time and kept doing it. put his old PI vig back in and no problem what so ever. One thing you may also check is in the valve body the valve will wear and cause play in the body itself. trans go and superior make a kit to correct this..(reamer and new valve) OR the correct way to fix it in my opinion is to buy the solid state ON/OFF soleniod that doesnt work off of pulse width and pressure variences. If you use the reamer overtime the hole will just become wore again and then your in the same position. Once the commanded time such as 50 mph is read by the computer the switch will activate and boom converter lock none of the bull shit then lol hope this helps and if it is the soln. then is a pretty easy fix take pan off take clip out tcc sol and replace. also check the harness while your in there the tranny getss awfulllllllllllly hot

[parish8]

I dont see y the tabels should be adjusted for the lock up pressure. The circle d is smaller than stock circumfrence wise... 100 is plenty to keep it lock. had a friend with a circle d and it was a piece. kept unlocking no matter what. sent back several time and kept doing it. put his old PI vig back in and no problem what so ever. One thing you may also check is in the valve body the valve will wear and cause play in the body itself. trans go and superior make a kit to correct this..(reamer and new valve) OR the correct way to fix it in my opinion is to buy the solid state ON/OFF soleniod that doesnt work off of pulse width and pressure variences. If you use the reamer overtime the hole will just become wore again and then your in the same position. Once the commanded time such as 50 mph is read by the computer the switch will activate and boom converter lock none of the bull shit then lol hope this helps and if it is the soln. then is a pretty easy fix take pan off take clip out tcc sol and replace. also check the harness while your in there the tranny getss awfulllllllllllly hot

you know this is a 6l80e trans? i dont think transgo has many parts if any for this tranny.

i am not a tranny expert but from what i am being told normal line pressure for a high hp gm tranny would likely be 150-200+psi. asking the clutchs and lock up clutch to hold 600+rwtq on a loaded mustang dyno at a pressure under 100psi seems like a bad idea.

the lock up works fine. when locked manualy it works down the road and when locked manualy it works great at wot right up till the pressures drop to what seems to low.

[transam_151]

yeah the do make the kit for them all and im almost sure that is the same as the 4l60e/80/6-80/90. any idea what the stock pressures were?

[Sneakyws6]

There is no way any kit for a 4L60/80E anything will work on a 6L80/90E as they are completely two different transmisson that share little to no parts.