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Thread: Green Top injectors killed fuel Economy! =(

  1. #1
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    Green Top injectors still eating fuel (updated title)

    Hey guys I recently switched over from my stock injectors to ford green tops and am getting bad fuel economy. (only thing I swapped was the actual injectors) 2004 M6 GTO (mods in sig)

    I was getting about 25/26 highway avg on old stock injectors now im down to 20 with these!

    My tuner loaded the data he found on the injectors (bosch 42's) and stuff we might just need to look over short fuel trims?

    I duno what to do bc gaining maybe a few hp isnt worth getting 20% less mpg any ideas of what could be to blame?

    Car pulls great and accelerates great 02's are working and have a nice 12.5-12.8 air fuel. Its just like idle and low cruise rpms eating more gas than ever before.


    Thanks in advance -Pete
    Last edited by PHZGOAT; 05-27-2010 at 04:39 PM.
    2004 M6 GTO

    Comp Custom Cam 228/230 .588/.592 112+ 2,59cc PRC stg 2.5 5.3's, Proxses modified 85mm ls6 intake, PP 85mm TB, Stainless Works LT'S with hollow cats, JBA Catback, Southbend Stg 2 clutch, Drag Bags, 06 Bumper, 06 Tails, 06 Brakes, MGW Proxses Modified shifter, AEM Brute force CAI, SLP 160 T-Stat. Green top injectors

  2. #2
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    sounds like your tune is off, thats all

  3. #3
    Tuner macca_779's Avatar
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    Certainly tune related. I ran 42's on a stock engine prior to fitting a cam and had no problems as the car ran exactly the same. All I did was rescale the IFR and trimmed a little here and there in the VE table.

  4. #4
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    hmm maybe bad injector data? anyone have the correct date for the ford green tops?
    2004 M6 GTO

    Comp Custom Cam 228/230 .588/.592 112+ 2,59cc PRC stg 2.5 5.3's, Proxses modified 85mm ls6 intake, PP 85mm TB, Stainless Works LT'S with hollow cats, JBA Catback, Southbend Stg 2 clutch, Drag Bags, 06 Bumper, 06 Tails, 06 Brakes, MGW Proxses Modified shifter, AEM Brute force CAI, SLP 160 T-Stat. Green top injectors

  5. #5
    Tuner macca_779's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHZGOAT View Post
    hmm maybe bad injector data? anyone have the correct date for the ford green tops?
    Use redhardsupra 's excel spreadsheet to calculate IFR. It works a treat.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by macca_779 View Post
    Use redhardsupra 's excel spreadsheet to calculate IFR. It works a treat.
    where can this be located? Is it the one attahed? sorry for all the questions
    Last edited by PHZGOAT; 05-15-2010 at 08:39 AM.
    2004 M6 GTO

    Comp Custom Cam 228/230 .588/.592 112+ 2,59cc PRC stg 2.5 5.3's, Proxses modified 85mm ls6 intake, PP 85mm TB, Stainless Works LT'S with hollow cats, JBA Catback, Southbend Stg 2 clutch, Drag Bags, 06 Bumper, 06 Tails, 06 Brakes, MGW Proxses Modified shifter, AEM Brute force CAI, SLP 160 T-Stat. Green top injectors

  7. #7
    Tuner macca_779's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHZGOAT View Post
    where can this be located? Is it the one attahed? sorry for all the questions
    Thats the one.

  8. #8
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    ill talk with my tuner about it thanks! do yo by chance happen to have the data from bosch/ford on their 42 lb injectors to put into the table or is it not needed?
    2004 M6 GTO

    Comp Custom Cam 228/230 .588/.592 112+ 2,59cc PRC stg 2.5 5.3's, Proxses modified 85mm ls6 intake, PP 85mm TB, Stainless Works LT'S with hollow cats, JBA Catback, Southbend Stg 2 clutch, Drag Bags, 06 Bumper, 06 Tails, 06 Brakes, MGW Proxses Modified shifter, AEM Brute force CAI, SLP 160 T-Stat. Green top injectors

  9. #9
    Tuner macca_779's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHZGOAT View Post
    ill talk with my tuner about it thanks! do yo by chance happen to have the data from bosch/ford on their 42 lb injectors to put into the table or is it not needed?
    No I don't have any of the data from Bosch/Lucas/Ford. The spreadsheet has always worked fine for me as far as IFR goes.

  10. #10
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    You also NEED the rest of the data such as voltage offsets, short pulse adder, min. pulsewidth, etc.. otherwise you are just going to be fudging up the rest of the tune to account for the fueling errors from the incomplete injector data.
    2017 Silverado LTZ

  11. #11
    Tuner macca_779's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLUG'S SS View Post
    You also NEED the rest of the data such as voltage offsets, short pulse adder, min. pulsewidth, etc.. otherwise you are just going to be fudging up the rest of the tune to account for the fueling errors from the incomplete injector data.
    You find it and post it up. Im all ears as the sad fact is that data is hard to find, if it even exists. I dialed them in myself using what data I could find and made a few estimations along the way. Using the stock values is what the majority of tuners use. 99% of the time it works fine.

  12. #12
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    I would call the injector company and get the voltage offset and short pulse data. You should not have to make changes to the VE when you change injectors. If you do then there is an error somewhere else. Fuel injectors do not change the volumetric efficeincy of the engine. If you cant get the data try to rescaled the tables based on the percentage they are larger, the offset should be larger then factory and the short pulse limit and default injector pulse should be smaller.

  13. #13
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    you need all the correct data Offset vs Volts vs VAC,Flowrate vs KPA,Short Pulse adder,min. injector pulse,They are not estimates.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by macca_779 View Post
    You find it and post it up. Im all ears as the sad fact is that data is hard to find, if it even exists. I dialed them in myself using what data I could find and made a few estimations along the way. Using the stock values is what the majority of tuners use. 99% of the time it works fine.
    I am running the Green Tops myself with ALL of the data and did not have to touch my VE table. BTW which is how it should be after changing injectors, if you have your ve and or maf tables dialed in correctly and then go and swap injectors out and now all of the sudden you have to make some moderate or even drastic changes to your airflow tables then something is definately off with the injector settings.
    Last edited by KLUG'S SS; 05-15-2010 at 02:13 PM.
    2017 Silverado LTZ

  15. #15
    Advanced Tuner umrjmac's Avatar
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    How about posting "ALL of the data"?

  16. #16
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    Calibrated Success DVD by Greg Banish. Contains all the Ford injector data Bosch and Siemens. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SME-DVD-1/

  17. #17
    Tuner macca_779's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroused383 View Post
    Calibrated Success DVD by Greg Banish. Contains all the Ford injector data Bosch and Siemens. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SME-DVD-1/
    Yeah or there is the free option. It was right under my nose the whole time.

    http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?p=68295
    Last edited by macca_779; 05-16-2010 at 09:24 AM.

  18. #18
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
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    That's not all the data.

  19. #19
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    thanks for the responses guys im sure we can get it figured out
    2004 M6 GTO

    Comp Custom Cam 228/230 .588/.592 112+ 2,59cc PRC stg 2.5 5.3's, Proxses modified 85mm ls6 intake, PP 85mm TB, Stainless Works LT'S with hollow cats, JBA Catback, Southbend Stg 2 clutch, Drag Bags, 06 Bumper, 06 Tails, 06 Brakes, MGW Proxses Modified shifter, AEM Brute force CAI, SLP 160 T-Stat. Green top injectors

  20. #20
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    well we got it closer...but still off

    I was getting 25-26 mpg and could get 27+ on occasion pretty easily (70mph highway cruise) on my ls1 injectors and all of the mods in sig not using lean cruise mode in Hp tuners.

    Now with only changing to Bosch Green Tops im only getting and average of 22-23 maybe 24 mpg 70 mph cruise same highway same basic temps as i only changed injectors few weeeks ago.

    All the injector data has been in and my fuel trims look good just seems to eat more fuel for no apparent reason. Might try lean cruise mode in HP tuners but i never had to before. Do these have worse lower rpm fueling characteristics than stock ls1's? Any better injector that would work better? Thanks again
    2004 M6 GTO

    Comp Custom Cam 228/230 .588/.592 112+ 2,59cc PRC stg 2.5 5.3's, Proxses modified 85mm ls6 intake, PP 85mm TB, Stainless Works LT'S with hollow cats, JBA Catback, Southbend Stg 2 clutch, Drag Bags, 06 Bumper, 06 Tails, 06 Brakes, MGW Proxses Modified shifter, AEM Brute force CAI, SLP 160 T-Stat. Green top injectors