More e10 questions

[ALB]

Still a bit confused.
So if set stoic to 14.7 and use factors of 1.25 for 11.8 and 1.14 for 12.8 with e10 would be leaner like 12.3 and 13.3.
So to get things correct should use stoic of like 14.1 and then factors of 1.19 and 1.10 .
Is this the right way to do this?
Before thought could leave the factors the same and just change stoic but it requires a different factor to get the desired afr right.
So if left it at 1.25 and put in 14.1 stoic it would be 11.28? And 1.14 with change to 14.1 stoic would be 12.6.

So going to change my tune today to be 14.1 with the 1.19 and 1.10. Of course when run gas it will show like .5 richer?

[ALB]

Guys really need to know if this is right . Someone please confirm this way is ok way to do it for e10. Sure lots of you guys have e10 where you live too.

[KLUG'S SS]

The numbers for your commanded PE stay the same for example say at 14.7/1.17 = 12.5 ish commanded AFR so then you take E10 which is 14.13/1.17 = 12.07 commanded AFR. Make sense?

We have E10 in my area and this is how I setup my tune it has worked out good like this. I do believe that I have it right but somebody please correct me if I am wrong.

[RWTD]

Since stoich is richer, you MUST run richer to be safe. Leave ALL of your fuel tables where they were with 100% gas, and just change the stoich.

[ALB]

Since stoich is richer, you MUST run richer to be safe. Leave ALL of your fuel tables where they were with 100% gas, and just change the stoich.

So if left it at 1.25 and put in 14.1 stoic it would be 11.28? And 1.14 with change to 14.1 stoic would be 12.6.

This would be richer but don' I want it to be 12.8 and 11.8 with e10 by setting stoic to 14.1 and setting the factors which are stoic divided by the factors above the 1.10 and 1.19 .

Putting it to stoic and not changing the factor seems it will mess up the target afr from where I want it to be. So I dont' want final afr with e10 to be 12.8 and 11.8?

[rnl35thss]

Since stoich is richer, you MUST run richer to be safe. Leave ALL of your fuel tables where they were with 100% gas, and just change the stoich.

Is the 14.13 stated earlier correct for E-10 stoich?

[RWTD]

So if left it at 1.25 and put in 14.1 stoic it would be 11.28? And 1.14 with change to 14.1 stoic would be 12.6.

This would be richer but don' I want it to be 12.8 and 11.8 with e10 by setting stoic to 14.1 and setting the factors which are stoic divided by the factors above the 1.10 and 1.19 .

Putting it to stoic and not changing the factor seems it will mess up the target afr from where I want it to be. So I dont' want final afr with e10 to be 12.8 and 11.8?

No, you're not paying attention. The more ethanol you use the RICHER you want the vehicle to be.

AFRs drops with a higher percentage of ethanol. Therefore, to maintain a given equivalence ratio, (φ = FAR/FARs = AFRs/AFR), one would need to run a richer (lower) AFR, depending on how much ethanol is used.

So, if your ideal AFRs on pure 100% gas is 14.64 (example) during idle/cruise and 12.6 (example) at WOT, for E10 your ideal AFRs would be 14.1 and 12.14:

This is why you ONLY need to change the Stoich AFR scalar to 14.1, and everything will fall into place for you automatically (provided you have your MAF and/or VE tables dialed in properly, and are using the proper injector calibration data).

Is the 14.13 stated earlier correct for E-10 stoich?

Use 14.1 (whatver your pcm rounds to, that's fine).

[KLUG'S SS]

That's what I was trying to say but you gave a much better explanation RWTD.

[y2konyxss]

Hey Al,

Where are you getting E10? is that the Mowhawk 94 Octane?

it would be intresting to know what the acutal Ethonal % is, they state it cant be upto as much as 10% but im unsure if thats accurate.

I just switched my car from the Mowhawk 94 to some Co-op 91 and what a diffrence, had to pull alot of timing in some areas.

Getting alot better fuel mileage in the car, but according to some of my numbers the car lost close to 50HP.... which seems crazy.

Took the girlfriend for a ride and she thought the car was really fast when I had the 94 octane tune VS the 91 octane. The only reason i switched is I dont want to store my car for winter with Ethonal blended fuel as its hard on the fuel system from what I hear, I was running E10 in some of my other cars and just recently started to have injector seal problems. maybe there is some truth to this.

[ALB]

Hmm so guess understand that so want it to be richer for the e10. So what happens when just throw in normal gas with the stoic set to e10 still. Just runs richer still. ? This is getting ok is already confusing.

Yk2 I use 94 mohawk e10 or pretty sure close to e10 exclusively in my 99. I have usually used e10 in my turbo toys for years, my talons,etc and they are parked over winter have not seen any problems with injectors at all so far.
Maybe with stock injectors and stock seals most of my cars have aftermarket bigger injectors and maybe better seals.

But many stock cars run e10 all the time. Wifes car gets superstore 91 think its e10.

Maybe I should just put in normal gas and get the ve right. I have injectors set right but are those settings for pure gas not e10. This whole thing is starting to give me a huge headache.
Glad I am not running e85 right now!

[KFZ)^]

I run e85 all day every day. Get your tune right, and change the stoich for the fuel. I don't typically change the PE table, unless I have a dyno to tune on (haven't gotten one of my own just yet!)
Now if I could just get the correct injector data for Ford 'Green Top' 42lb-ers in a GM car, I'd be happier than a pig in sh!t. $249 data