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Thread: Beginner G8 GT trans tuning

  1. #21
    Tuner bluessv's Avatar
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    04blackgmc and lsx,

    You guys seem to be leading the charge on these great forums. I'm sure you guys could work on a tune that is slightly firmer than stock with considerable TM left in during the shifts whilst driving around town. But also incorporate firm, sharp, hard hitting shifts with considerably less TM for when you guys want to race.

    I stronly believe the HP software will allow such calibrations by using the Shift Torque Factor Adder tables in conjuction with the Adder Modifier table; remembering they are multiplied with each other before adding the Shift Torque Factor.

    As far as the TM aspect of such a tune, I would think by having a smaller negative numbers in the Adder Modifer table around the low torque/rev range and then a larger negative number up higher in the torque/rev range would allow such a calibration. As long as all the Shift Torque Factor Adder table is set to "1" or close to it and the Shift Torque Factor table remains stock too.

    An example would be leaving a number such as "-0.2000" or "-0.2500" in the lower end of the Adder Modifier table. With the TM equation in mind, the TM applied to a shift would look like this:

    [(1 x -0.2000) + 1] x 1 = 0.8

    Or in other words the TCM would only apply 80% of the stock TM to the shift which would allow 20% of the torque to remain during the shift.

    As you got higher in the rev/torque range (giving it a hiding!!) you could use a much higher negative figure (-0.8500) which would allow much less TM to occur. the TM equation would then look like this:

    [(1 x -0.8500) + 1] x 1 = 0.15

    Or in other words the TCM would only be applying 15% of the stock TM to the shift and allowing 85% of the torque to remain throughout the shift.

    Of course I nominate the Shift Torque Factor and the Shift Torque Factor Adder tables to be "1" for ease of explaining my theory but fine tuning can always be considered with the use to the TM equation. The fine tuning would allow different TM settings per shift. this would allow you to have a medium level of TM being left in the shift for the 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 shifts but by playing with the 4-5 and 5-6 Shift Torque Factor Adder numbers you could be getting close to stock TM.

    Hope that all make sense??

  2. #22
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    Thanks!
    im gonna try messing with those. i did mine the way it is now just to make it simple for now.

    according to shift time the car is shifting just as fast as without tm there..
    just the usual timing drop.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluessv View Post
    04blackgmc and lsx,

    You guys seem to be leading the charge on these great forums. I'm sure you guys could work on a tune that is slightly firmer than stock with considerable TM left in during the shifts whilst driving around town. But also incorporate firm, sharp, hard hitting shifts with considerably less TM for when you guys want to race.

    I stronly believe the HP software will allow such calibrations by using the Shift Torque Factor Adder tables in conjuction with the Adder Modifier table; remembering they are multiplied with each other before adding the Shift Torque Factor.

    As far as the TM aspect of such a tune, I would think by having a smaller negative numbers in the Adder Modifer table around the low torque/rev range and then a larger negative number up higher in the torque/rev range would allow such a calibration. As long as all the Shift Torque Factor Adder table is set to "1" or close to it and the Shift Torque Factor table remains stock too.

    An example would be leaving a number such as "-0.2000" or "-0.2500" in the lower end of the Adder Modifier table. With the TM equation in mind, the TM applied to a shift would look like this:

    [(1 x -0.2000) + 1] x 1 = 0.8

    Or in other words the TCM would only apply 80% of the stock TM to the shift which would allow 20% of the torque to remain during the shift.

    As you got higher in the rev/torque range (giving it a hiding!!) you could use a much higher negative figure (-0.8500) which would allow much less TM to occur. the TM equation would then look like this:

    [(1 x -0.8500) + 1] x 1 = 0.15

    Or in other words the TCM would only be applying 15% of the stock TM to the shift and allowing 85% of the torque to remain throughout the shift.

    Of course I nominate the Shift Torque Factor and the Shift Torque Factor Adder tables to be "1" for ease of explaining my theory but fine tuning can always be considered with the use to the TM equation. The fine tuning would allow different TM settings per shift. this would allow you to have a medium level of TM being left in the shift for the 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 shifts but by playing with the 4-5 and 5-6 Shift Torque Factor Adder numbers you could be getting close to stock TM.

    Hope that all make sense??
    have u tried and logged all this and the timing drop?
    i need to if no one else has
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  4. #24
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    here is some examples of different things...
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  5. #25
    Tuner bluessv's Avatar
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    I haven't done logging yet so if you have a chance that would be good. I've uploaded a tune that's only slightly different to stock to just cruise around town in. You can tell the difference, however only slightly. I've gone the other way with it though and increased the TM closer to stock the higher the torque range is. Just to be easy on the trans. But I'm still playing with it so I haven't posted it yet.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluessv View Post
    04blackgmc and lsx,

    You guys seem to be leading the charge on these great forums. I'm sure you guys could work on a tune that is slightly firmer than stock with considerable TM left in during the shifts whilst driving around town. But also incorporate firm, sharp, hard hitting shifts with considerably less TM for when you guys want to race.
    Thanks for the rap BlueSSV. Your details all make excellent sense. As time allows have been looking at the effects of the STF's and also how to tune the torque profile for fast and seamless low torque shifts and snappy higher torque shifts. Up as well as down.

  7. #27
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    I'm trying 0.1750 shift times and the 2-3 sometimes feels like its "lazy". I dunno its hard to explain, but it feels like I'm shifting manually...but badly. I'll probably go back to 0.2000

    Anyway I have a question on 2 settings:
    1.) Tip In TqMgt > Upshift
    2.) Torque Management > Speed Control Termination Mode

    I ask because I notice most people set Tip In Upshift to "None" and Speed Ctrl Termination to "Immediate".

    Lastly, what is meant by shift "overlap"?

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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allmachtige View Post

    Lastly, what is meant by shift "overlap"?
    "Overlap". Where are you getting the term from?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by novaflash2002 View Post
    i know that if you set your shift times any quicker that .1, you will over lap in shifts. what i like to do is, up the shift firmness my 20 in each cell. if it too much subtract 5 from each or vise/versa. i also like to turn my max pressure up all the way. i did this when my gto had 5000 miles on it, now im at 65000 with no problems
    Quote Originally Posted by Sneakyws6 View Post
    I Dont Think Shift Times Under .1 Will Overlap.
    Sorry I should have quoted it.

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allmachtige View Post
    I'm trying 0.1750 shift times and the 2-3 sometimes feels like its "lazy". I dunno its hard to explain, but it feels like I'm shifting manually...but badly. I'll probably go back to 0.2000

    Anyway I have a question on 2 settings:
    1.) Tip In TqMgt > Upshift
    2.) Torque Management > Speed Control Termination Mode

    I ask because I notice most people set Tip In Upshift to "None" and Speed Ctrl Termination to "Immediate".

    Lastly, what is meant by shift "overlap"?
    i did just because LOL..
    i have messed with alot of the settings but nothing to huge in difference.
    my old No tm tune i had most set to none now i just changed a few around.

    my 2-3 isnt lazy...hmm... in TUTD it barks 3rd everytime..and and sport feels crisp and not lazy.
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  11. #31
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    did some logging today with the new trans settings..
    it tis NICe! very close to stock tm settings under PT drives smooth and quick..

    under WOT im going from 25* to 10* this is what should be 10% TM left it.
    with 30% i was going from 25* to 1.5*
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  12. #32
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    Mind sharing? I'm trying some of your settings from your file: shanetmV1.25STFA.hpt

    So far its pretty nice. What did you change since this file?

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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allmachtige View Post
    Mind sharing? I'm trying some of your settings from your file: shanetmV1.25STFA.hpt

    So far its pretty nice. What did you change since this file?
    just some little things.. u like it?
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allmachtige View Post

    Lastly, what is meant by shift "overlap"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Allmachtige View Post
    Sorry I should have quoted it.
    OK got it.

    Its most likely referring to something that is entirely possible with a "clutch to clutch" trans like the A6.

    In any shift there is an offgoing clutch and an oncoming clutch (except 1-2). It is important that the offgoing clutch is sufficiently released at the time the oncoming clutch is substantially engaged.

    If both clutches are engaged too "deeply" then the trans is effectively trying to be in two gears at once. At the very least this will see additional friction and heat build up. At worst it could see fried clutches or a big one time bad clunk , though from memory in the early development of this trans it was mostly fried clutches that were anecdotally reported.

    The logged shift time is just part of the overall shift sequence, not the whole "shift". The time generally refers to something a little less than the trans torque control timing retard duration. For example the whole shift sequence might take 1.2 sec, and the time might be reported as 0.3 sec.

    Are your measured shift times down to 0.1 or below? We see regular 0.15's on 3-4's, and do recall seeing a 0.08 sec once or twice. Dont know how accurate the times are though as it seems they are a counter that starts to increment after the timing pull starts and ends near where it ends but not consistently so.

    There that sounded easy didnt it? Yeah right!

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04blackgmc View Post
    just some little things.. u like it?
    I've using quite a bit of your settings, take a look.

    Overall its nice, but I'm making a few minor adjustments.

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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allmachtige View Post
    I've using quite a bit of your settings, take a look.

    Overall its nice, but I'm making a few minor adjustments.
    if u want the speed limiter removed do Calibration
    yep i see u have some of my basic stuff
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04blackgmc View Post
    if u want the speed limiter removed do Calibration
    yep i see u have some of my basic stuff
    Calibration? Speedometer > Speed Limiter > Source?

    Currently it says GMLAN. What is this?

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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allmachtige View Post
    Calibration? Speedometer > Speed Limiter > Source?

    Currently it says GMLAN. What is this?
    do calibartion...
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  19. #39
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    Allmachtige,

    That's an interesting tune you postedd last. Excellent use of the TM settings while utilising the Adder Modifier table. I see you have a varied TM application through the torque band. With the use of "-1.000" at the high end rev/torque band you basically elliminate the TM during the shift. At a WOT application on your 1-2 and 2-3 shifts you should have no TM being applied by the TCM. Can you please confirm that this is the case?

    Otherwise I think we are all starting to get a better understanding of the TM system and how the TCM applies the TM based on the many tables it has for referrence. Awesome!!

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluessv View Post
    Allmachtige,

    That's an interesting tune you postedd last. Excellent use of the TM settings while utilising the Adder Modifier table. I see you have a varied TM application through the torque band. With the use of "-1.000" at the high end rev/torque band you basically elliminate the TM during the shift. At a WOT application on your 1-2 and 2-3 shifts you should have no TM being applied by the TCM. Can you please confirm that this is the case?

    Otherwise I think we are all starting to get a better understanding of the TM system and how the TCM applies the TM based on the many tables it has for referrence. Awesome!!
    Yeah I'm pretty sure it eliminates all TM under WOT. It never used to chirp 2-3, only 1-2. Now 1-2 barks and 2-3 shifts chirp.

    Shane I'm fine with using Calibration, but what does it do?

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