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Thread: Ford Injector Calibration Data & Tuning Info

  1. #41
    SCT and Diablosport have it wrong too.

    We're curently on a crusade to get injector parameter units corrected in all brands of tuning software.

  2. #42
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    Hi Paul,

    I didn't think there was anything wrong with SCT units, its just that everything needs to be entered in lb's and seconds rather than ms. Apologies in advance if I have misinterpreted this!

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by IH8TOADS View Post
    Hi Paul,

    I didn't think there was anything wrong with SCT units, its just that everything needs to be entered in lb's and seconds rather than ms. Apologies in advance if I have misinterpreted this!


    Take a look at the offsets. The units are seconds, but they are labeled as milliseconds.

    I don't have the SCT Advantage software so I'm not sure how far this goes.

    My point in responding was to let everyone know that the "other guys" have mislabeled units as well.

  4. #44
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    Wow.....you're SO right. I've always thought it said seconds. Classic. I can only imagine how this must confuse the novice tuner.

    Nice pick up though and these type of issues must drive you crazy.

    The Fuel Multiplier per Cylinder table in SCT is stupidly linked to the battery offset table for some reason too. Change one and it changes the other :P

  5. #45
    I would like to discuss this further, but I don't want to clog HPT's forum with a bunch of SCT stuff.

    I sent you a PM

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSxpwrdZ View Post
    I wanted to bump this thread since it dealt with injector data. I see that you all are inputing the injector offset vs. voltage as a decemal. It seems to me that the units are off in HPTuners because the data provided from Ford for instance on the 39lb injectors are:

    Code:
    Volts    PW Offset (mS)
    6.00    4.413
    7.00    3.148
    8.00    2.303
    9.00    1.911
    10.00    1.579
    11.00    1.351
    12.00    1.177
    13.00    1.037
    13.50    0.963
    14.00    0.904
    15.00    0.821
    15.90    0.780
    But to get it to work right under Milliseconds in HPTuners you need to input this:
    Code:
    Volts    PW Offset (mS)
    6.00    0.004413
    7.00    0.003148
    8.00    0.002303
    9.00    0.001911
    10.00    0.001579
    11.00    0.001351
    12.00    0.001177
    13.00    0.001037
    13.50    0.000963
    14.00    0.000904
    15.00    0.000821
    15.90    0.000780
    Are the units wrong on that table?
    Fixed in the new beta.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  7. #47
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    New beta out Bill?
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  8. #48
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    yeah
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  9. #49
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    Bill - I have version 2.23.372. Is this issue fixed in my version. I'm having some trouble dialing in a set of 42 lb injectors on an 05 GT
    2002 EB C5Z06. ECS Novi, Alky control meth & headers, 633 rwhp

  10. #50
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    I discussed the issue concerning the "Injector Offset vs. Voltage" function listing 3 YEARS AGO back in 2008, as well as the "FNPW_BKCOMP" parameter missing (so don't hold your breath on HPT adding it on anytime soon!).

    With that being said, SCT, DiabloSport, & HPT never had the unit listings wrong. This is how they were always displayed in the PowerPC vehicles (as you'll see by my quoted post from 2008 below). Labeling may be a different story, however, but that's more of how one perceives the decimal description in their head. ie 0.0007xx and 0.003xxx is viewed as a ms by some, and not as a sec (ie 1.x). I even discussed this on SCT's dealer's forums back in 2007 or 2008.

    http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...21&postcount=7

    Furthermore, on the "Injector Offset vs. Voltage" function in HPT, you're gonna fock yourself if you copy Ford Racing's "FNPW_OFFSET" values direct from the pdf file. Why? Ford Racing shows the values for the parameter in EEC-V specs. The EEC-V pcms has these parameters listed in seconds, and the the newer Oak pcms have them in milliseconds. Therefore, you just take the values for the EEC-V pcm and divide them by 1000. Here's Ford Racing's values in the proper format for HPT:

    Code:
    	PW Offset
    0.00	0.0025900
    0.00	0.0025900
    0.00	0.0025900
    6.00	0.0025900
    8.00	0.0014410
    10.00	0.0009210
    11.00	0.0007580
    12.00	0.0006360
    13.00	0.0005180
    14.00	0.0004090
    15.00	0.0003120
    15.90	0.0003120
    Notice the voltage difference on the left hand column? Open up the Injector Offset parameter and then click on "Volts (V)" on the left, and then replace the values with this:

    Code:
    	V
    0	0.000
    1	0.000
    2	0.000
    3	6.000
    4	8.000
    5	10.000
    6	11.000
    7	12.000
    8	13.000
    9	14.000
    10	15.000
    11	15.900
    Don't forget to copy in the other values Ford Racing lists:

    FUEL_BKPT (lb) - "Breakpoint" in HPT
    FNPW_BKCOMP - HPT hasn't given us this parameter yet, unfortunately (SCT has, tho ).

    FNPW_LSCOMP - "Flow Rate Low Mult vs. Pressure" in HPT
    FNPW_HSCOMP - "Flow Rate High Mult vs. Pressure" in HPT
    FNPW_OFFCOMP - "Offset vs. Pressure" in HPT


    These last four are important for when fuel pressure changes on the EFRS (Electronic Returnless Fuel System) vehicles.
    Last edited by RWTD; 08-10-2011 at 08:52 AM.
    Formerly known as RWTD

    Toys: '22 Tesla Model S Plaid / '20 Chevy Duramax / ?20 Sea-Doo RXT-X (2)

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by turboffr View Post
    Bill - I have version 2.23.372. Is this issue fixed in my version. I'm having some trouble dialing in a set of 42 lb injectors on an 05 GT
    Yes
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners View Post
    Yes
    Bill. If I'm thinking clearly, 4.XX ms as expressed in mathematical terms would be .004XX, which is what I would need to input into HP Tuners, correct? Or does entering 4.XX get it done?
    2002 EB C5Z06. ECS Novi, Alky control meth & headers, 633 rwhp

  13. #53
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    I have no idea what values need to be entered, I've never tuned a ford, RWTD has a pretty good grasp as to what values need to be entered from what I can tell, as does Paul from injector dynamics.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  14. #54
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    Ok. Hopefully they chime in (I know I'm being a pest at this point) I guess my question is more related to how HP Tuners is using the value. Take 1 millisecond as the example. If the HP Tuners table is labelled (ms), does a value need to be entered as the mathematical value of .001 or stated in units, in this case 1.0.

    What exactly was fixed in the BETA that you referenced above? Was it just the unit label for the table? If so, than it would make sense that I need to still enter the decimal value.
    2002 EB C5Z06. ECS Novi, Alky control meth & headers, 633 rwhp

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by turboffr View Post
    Ok. Hopefully they chime in (I know I'm being a pest at this point) I guess my question is more related to how HP Tuners is using the value. Take 1 millisecond as the example. If the HP Tuners table is labelled (ms), does a value need to be entered as the mathematical value of .001 or stated in units, in this case 1.0.

    What exactly was fixed in the BETA that you referenced above? Was it just the unit label for the table? If so, than it would make sense that I need to still enter the decimal value.
    Can't remember if we changed the factor or the units value, either way whatever it was its fixed now in all the ford operating systems.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  16. #56
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    Im using 2.23.321

    and the units for time in v-off set are entered in MS (see table attached.)

    Bill and I discussed this when RWTD mentioned it and Paul from ID also got involved.

    I had a couple of Aus OS's changed by Bill and the crew, not too sure how you guys are travelling now though?
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiddeous View Post
    Im using 2.23.321

    and the units for time in v-off set are entered in MS (see table attached.)

    Bill and I discussed this when RWTD mentioned it and Paul from ID also got involved.

    I had a couple of Aus OS's changed by Bill and the crew, not too sure how you guys are travelling now though?
    exactly the same way I entered mine (whole unites). With no other changes other than the injectors and settings in the tune, the car runs terribly rich. Something is not right. Going to try an SCT tune and see what happens.
    2002 EB C5Z06. ECS Novi, Alky control meth & headers, 633 rwhp

  18. #58
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    UPDATE: The ON3 Performance injectors are Chinese knockoff pieces of s#*t. That's the problem, not the tune. Another local car just had the same issue yesterday on teh dyno with ON3 42's. They replaced them and all was fine.

    I called ON3 and asked them what kind they were and they said ON3. I asked him when they started manufacturing injectors. Said they get them from a supplier and didn't know the brand. Said they were flow tested to with 1%. Garbage. Don't buy injectors from them The turbo kit fit nice, but injector are no good.
    Last edited by turboffr; 08-11-2011 at 12:05 PM.
    2002 EB C5Z06. ECS Novi, Alky control meth & headers, 633 rwhp

  19. #59
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    Oh okay. Shiit injectors are shiit! At least you have found the issue tho!
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injector Dynamics View Post


    Take a look at the offsets. The units are seconds, but they are labeled as milliseconds.

    I don't have the SCT Advantage software so I'm not sure how far this goes.

    My point in responding was to let everyone know that the "other guys" have mislabeled units as well.
    The guy who masters the software is the one who understands that things may be the right values but labeled incorrect. This has happened even on the 2011 templates and wont be corrected for a very long time, if at all