Haha there it was just in front of me, x3600, now it looks good. Thanks again Eric! I will never ask that question again
Haha there it was just in front of me, x3600, now it looks good. Thanks again Eric! I will never ask that question again
I am going to swap my injectors over to Bosch 52lb injectors (part number 0 280 158 117) which seem to be Ford motorsport part number M-9593-G302. I can easily convert the slopes and breakpoint values from 39.15 psi to 58.01 psi (2.7 -> 4 bar) but not the offset table. Does anyone know if there is a formula to convert the Ford injector data for battery offsets to run on a different pressure?
Thanks in advance.
Darryl.
Last edited by DarrylC; 05-13-2014 at 06:15 PM.
Darryl, the data you seek is in the below pdf link listed under "FNPW_OFFCOMP". Interpolate the values between 54.96 and 60.03 psi for 58.01 psi.
https://www.fordracingparts.com/part...-9593-g302.pdf
Further, careful converting your slopes, because, contrary to basic math, it won't be linear. Notice the slight difference in the multipliers at the various pressures for FNPW_LSCOMP and FNPW_HSCOMP? That's the beauty of a flow bench tester that Ford Racing has access to.
Regards,
James
Last edited by RWTD; 05-13-2014 at 06:42 PM.
Formerly known as RWTD
Toys: '22 Tesla Model S Plaid / '20 Chevy Duramax / ?20 Sea-Doo RXT-X (2)
James,
Brilliant, thank you.
I was already working from that sheet of data and assumed the other data was for return less fuel systems as we don't need if for our speed density system.
And a great heads up on the multipliers. I always wondered why only some tables followed the math and not always perfectly.
Again, thank you much appreciated.
Darryl.
Last edited by DarrylC; 05-13-2014 at 08:17 PM.
You're most welcome! I was bored and played in Excel to derive you some data for 58.01 psi:
Flow Rate Low: 69.7171429570824 (0.015913 * 1.216984418 * 3600)
Flow Rate High: 59.6698951965732 (0.013497 * 1.228048521 * 3600)
Breakpoint: 0.00001668566548 (0.0000144400 * 1.155517)
PW Minimum: 0.711
Offset vs. Voltage
Above data is based on the Ford Racing FNPW_OFFCOMP data:Code:6 6.166679688 8 2.589009696 10 1.70111214 11 1.43438724 12 1.234047204 13 1.075197708 14 0.935315316 15 0.828625356
Code:PSI Multiplier 54.96 1.217962532 58.01 1.185444 60.03 1.163906356
Formerly known as RWTD
Toys: '22 Tesla Model S Plaid / '20 Chevy Duramax / ?20 Sea-Doo RXT-X (2)
puting id 1000s in
i can change the hi low flow rate
but the break point is lbm/cyc but in hp its in kg
and in the offset voltage i have to put an extra zero so what is on the injector dynamics paper work
and the pw minimum needs anthour zero 0.000272
do i need to change the flow rate vs pressure.
if i put my sheet up can some one convert it so i can see it for my self.or tune with it all ready done
thanks
James,
Thanks for providing this. Initially I was a bit concerned in that my values were very slightly different until I noticed your 60.03 value for OFFCOMP, my data came from the pdf (1.1638) yet you value is 1.16390... so I guess you got the values from something else.
Regards,
Darryl.
any help trying to put my id1000s in to hp tuner for ford.looking for any help
I think I may have it but has any one got any screen shots of what it should all look like
thanks
Thank you James for your help, most informative.
Once installed into my car the injector data was not the best as the idle fuel trims were hovering around +25% and the car was running leaner than requested. So I downloaded a GT500 tune and checked and the data Ford uses for it and it is different to the data for this injector from the data sheet. Once converted, the High slope from the GT500 was much closer and the breakpoint was similar but the other data is vastly different especially things like minimum pulse width (GT500 has .448 and the data sheet .711).
Something is not quite correct. Either the injector is not what Ford uses on the GT500 (I have seen a picture of the injector and it is the same according to it) or Ford does not use its own data in the real world. All a bit confusing.
Any ideas/thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Darryl.
Last edited by DarrylC; 06-16-2014 at 06:25 PM.
After adjusting the scaling it turns out that the Bosch 0 280 158 117 injectors don't appear to be the G302. What I came up with was suspiciously close to the other 47lb injector (LU47). So I put the data in (the data sheet is not correct, especially around some of the 4 bar values that I needed but is easily fixed) and it is brilliant.
All the fuel rims are around +/- 1-2% and we have good fuel supply from idle to redline
So I would suggest you use this data
https://www.fordracingparts.com/part...-9593-LU47.pdf
for these injectors.
Darryl.
Looks like this thread gets resurrected every now and then... my turn! Would like to ask that you check the injector offset multiplier provided for the 13/14 GT500 injectors above. It looks strange in that the multiplier is lower at 60psi than the 50psi and 70psi values. Wondering if something was transposed or if these injectors just behave strangely with in that pressure range.
SaabV, if you are referring to the LU47 data then yes the values are out and as stated particularly around the values the Ausy Fords need for 4 bar calculations. There is even incorrect data just have a look at the breakpoint comp at 55.95 psi it is lower than the previous value. Anyway I made some transpositions and calculations and came up with the attached spreadsheet. Having a look at it I think my offcomp at 65 psi is slightly different to the data sheet (1.2179 vs 1.2158).
Woops there is a slight error in the calculation of the offset for 58psi (silly excel error I made). Updated values are:
FNPW_OFFSET
VBAT Offset 58.015
6 6.596 7.6764248
8 2.274 2.6464812
10 1.483 1.7259154
11 1.255 1.460569
12 1.075 1.251085
13 0.935 1.088153
14 0.813 0.9461694
15 0.719 0.8367722
Sorry about that.
Last edited by DarrylC; 07-29-2014 at 06:35 PM.
Thanks for the response Darryl. The injectors I was referring to are the Bosch 298 in the 13/14 GT500. Eric posted a screenshot with specs that look odd in the offset multiplier, implying that the injectors have less offset at 60psi than 50psi. I've never seen an injector behave that way so I was wondering if the 50/60psi lines were reversed of if they really have that odd behavior. The multiplier curve would be very smooth if not for the outlier at 50psi. Unfortunately, I don't have a stock 2013 GT500 file to verify against.
Stock GT500 file.
Eric Brooks
HP Tuners, LLC
Thank you.
I am finding that the Ford injector data is not being used by Ford.
The more standard tunes I look at the more I find the data is different. Take for example the GT500 tune that I downloaded from the repository (attached). These are supposed to be the 47lb G302 injectors but Ford does not use their own data. For example minimum pulse width in the tune is 0.488 yet the G302 data has 0.711, low slope is close but High Slope is not and many other differences such as Offset and slope modifiers.
Anyone else finding this?
The test fluid can make a difference. What does it say on the calibration sheet? Heptane?
Anyway this is common the SCT value files can be different to the stock files.
Also in regards to the minimum pulsewidth, I'm pretty sure this value in the Ford Racing Summaries is based on a statistical value whereby the min pulsewidth is defined by the point where the actual delivered fuel mass varies from the commanded by greater than 5%.
I wouldn't stress too much....you will find yourself adjust the slopes from those published in most cases.