Siemens 60lb injectors can have lowered min pulse to even 0.8 to avoid rich decel and have better idle. Some time ago i wrote they feel good with 1ms i place of 1.3 from factory table sheet.
Siemens 60lb injectors can have lowered min pulse to even 0.8 to avoid rich decel and have better idle. Some time ago i wrote they feel good with 1ms i place of 1.3 from factory table sheet.
Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
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This is a little off topic, but where can I find calibrations for CAI's and TB's?
I have seen the same thing. The car with the best idle and response had the 0.8 min pulse and high/low slopes both set to about 65 lb/hr, the rest of the data was what Ford had (4 bar,return style fuel system). Seems like you can be quite a way away from what the Ford data saysOriginally Posted by caniggia
Not about calibration, but be aware, delivered lower o-ring seal with lu47 is loose and causes vacuum leak on mustang 4.6.
Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
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Great thread/Post but no more clearer than the Yarra river oops
HNY2015
cheers
Just FYI the Injector Offset vs IGNV table still has no units for the offset, I am aware they are in s eg values like 0.001346 for ID1000 but it would be nice if the axis were labled!
Is this for the 3V? Do we need bigger O-rings?
This is a very interesting thread, since I am using the MU52 injectors (OEM GT500) on a PDSC Coyote build. I know that some people won't even tune the 2.7-bar MU52's on a 4-bar car, citing a lack of quality injector data.
My driveability is already quite good. Steady-state fueling and WOT fueling are both solid. But I do see a lot of transient fuel trim swings, that I would love to iron out.
Already noted in this thread, is that the OEM calibration of the GT500 does not match the Ford Racing calibration data sheet. I am more inclined to use the tune values, as they represent the real world usage.
It seems to be common to just take values for low/high flow rates and scale them for the increased rail pressure. It has also been mentioned that they don't necessarily scale linearly. This may be an ignorant question, but isn't that data already provided in the GT500 calibration? High/low flow rate and breakpoint have offset vs rail pressure tables, which span across the 2.7 - 4 bar rail pressure delta. Why not use the default flow rate and breakpoint values, along with the rail pressure offset & multiplier tables, and allow the tables to correct for rail pressure differences?
This obviously relies heavily on the inferred rail pressure calculations. In theory, you could just map fuel trims against fuel flow rate, and look for a nice linear correction for the high and low inferred rail pressure tables.
Am I overlooking something critical?
Last edited by CCS86; 07-24-2018 at 10:11 PM.
Okay, well I proved that theory wrong, but I still want to know WHY it doesn't work!
I used all the injector data straight from the stock GT500 tune (high/low flows, flow/BP/offset multipliers vs rail pressure, and offset vs voltage, along with the stock MAF curve). I left all the inferred rail pressure tables set for Coyote values.
The car ran, but it was 20-28% rich everywhere (I stayed under ~50% pedal).
Looking at the flow multiplier table, it looks like I should have gotten about 22% fuel flow reduction for a low-flow, 57-58 psi rail pressure. It sure seems like this would have gotten me close on the fueling, but for some reason this multiplier correction was not applied. Are these tables just not used?
lowmult.png
Correct me if I am wrong, but because the gt500 uses a fps in the rail to adjust fuel pump pwm (not inferred), you cannot use it's data as direct drop into coyote?
Similar to how return style systems on the coyote require different values.
That is true. They are very different fuel systems and if the stock GT500 settings worked well, I guess there would already be consensus on that.
If the GT500 system does a very good job of managing FP at the rail, these multiplier tables would not be heavily leveraged and wouldn't need to be so accurate.
Then there is the actual calibration PDF with somewhat different values. That was conceivably generated on a flow bench and should be accurate. I still come back to my question of why a rail pressure change causes all sorts of calibration issues, when 4-bar is well within the operating range of that specific injector, and there are tables to compensate the entire calibration based on pressure changes.
It seems that either the pressure compensation tables are inaccurate, or the ECU strategies are not using them correctly.
Here is an interesting chart that shows 39.15 psi and 58 psi calibrations for the same injector. I restructured it to show both values and the percent different on the same sheet.
Notably, while high slope goes up, low slope goes down, leaving the low slope value significantly lower than the high slope. This seems very bizarre to me.
Injector cal comparison.png
I'm also wondering why all the pressure based modifier tables are 1.0 @ 39.15psi for the GT500 (makes sense), but 65 psi for the Coyote calibrations (instead of ~58psi).
This means you are getting pretty significant modification to the entered flow rates, BP, and offsets all of the time.
Say, My voltages are way different from what you have on the posting. Should I copy and paste what you have too? Or Just leave them there, the original values? And that you for the really great post!
great information i really appreciate this info, But I'm having trouble finding the correct information on the injectors supplied by Kenne Bell for a 4.6l 04 Gt this are the info on them I have
36lbs
D3165BA
3178
online I can cross reference this to either a ac delco, delphi or lucas part number showing results for either 37lbs or 36lbs.
Part Number: D3165BA (Lucas old 5203002, Lucas New 621037)
Top feed disc injectors use a small disc with six holes around its circumference. The disc rests on a short chimney that surrounds a metering hole. As the disc is raised off the chimney by magnetic force, fuel flows through the holes in the disc, over the walls of the chimney, and out the metering hole to form a full, finely atomized cone.
Performance advantages over pintle injectors (i.e. Ford / Bosch & Accel types) as listed by Delphi:
• The flat mating surface ensures that no excess fuel is present to evaporate and therefore, no deposits or clogging can occur.
• Compatible with alternative fuels (i.e. Methanol)
• Longer service life
• High-speed disc action allows wider dynamic flow range for improved idling
• Quieter operation
• Revolutionary disc design resists build up deposits which can affect fuel flow.
• No Fuel leakage for quicker starts
Static Flow lb/hr (n-Heptane): 37.27
Static Flow Tolerance +/-%: 4%
Dynamic Flow (mg/pulse): 8.42
Dynamic Flow Tolerance +/-%: 6%
Coil Resistance Ohms: 15.9
Coil Resistance Tolerance +/- Ohms: .35
Spray Pattern: Split 20o
Connector Type: Minitimer (Bosch EV1)
O-ring Type: Viton
E85 Compatible: Yes
Methanol Compatible: Yes
Weight (non-shipping): .19 lbs
AllowCC: True
Last edited by Robtech_WTC; 09-18-2020 at 01:57 AM.
Part Number lbs/hr cc/min grams /min PSI BARS lbs/hr cc/min 80% 95% Feed
D3165BA 36.16 380 273.4 43.5 3 36.16 380 55.6 66.1 Top
Last edited by Robtech_WTC; 09-24-2020 at 07:12 PM.
thats useless
you will have to manually dial them in
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