Ok someone pm me some 60 pound siemens data can't afford the greg B. disc right now.

[ALB]

I would appreciate if someone can sendt me some reasonably close settings for 60 pounders and not talking ifr.I don't need them likely exact but I can't get my idle in line and not sure if should take out more ve or play with injector settings. Already have pulsewidths turned down to .90. Didn't mess with any other settings other than ifr.
I did get things a bit leaner by going down on ve numbers .It shouldn't be rocket science to get 60s or even 80s to run nice.My talon software can dial in injectors in a minute . Even 160 pounders.

Also get rich decel as well. I was told to play with dfco but not sure what settings exactly to set too there are quite a few sections under dfco.

[RWTD]

How bout NO!

I knew this would ultimately happen.

First of all, you know that's not right. Second, the data is copyrighted and is NOT for public distribution, and anyone who gives it out is breaking this agreement. And, FYI, federal law actually does apply here. This is not any different than stealing software, downloading music, or making copies of rentals.

You should do what everyone else has done who has the data: Pay for your use of it. Greg's work needs to be respected. You have enough money for ALL those expensive mods you list in your signature, but not a measly $249 for something that will actually teach/train you how to turn your car properly?

[ALB]

I don't want all his little details. Just some basic settings ,figured there should be some on the repository but the ones in there look like guys just set the ifr and must crank down the ve or there must be a lot of guys running rich at idle and decel.

So are Gregs settings going to be in his new book for 20 bucks or just on his 250 buck dvd?
Not trying to be cheap here as said want something to get things in the ballpark then will maybe buy the dvd a bit later on. I paid pretty good money for this program.

And don't plan on sticking with the little 60s either they are too small.I need to dial in 80s possilby not siemens 80s or possibly dial in my 120 low impedence injectors if decide to run them instead of high impedence ones. . So not really worth paying 250 to dail in too small injectors . Does the dvd have settings to dial in the siemens 80s and other makes of 80s and the low impedence 120s. Forget what brand I have of those .I would assume the 120 low impedence might not run rich at idle and rich decel so might be much simpler to set up.

[RWTD]

The Siemens (Continental) 80s actually flow 75.1572 at 39.15 psi. At 58 psi, they flow 91.47843, which is enough injector to support over 1000 rwhp Actual on a supercharged setup. If you feel you're going to make more power than that, then you'll need larger. Greg's training DVD has the proper calibration data for the Siemens 80s for GM vehicles.

[ALB]

No absolute max and that is more like a dyno max not a driving around max is 1000rwhp.
Fuel system ,etc would be at max with that.I will still get 80s or use my 120s. I am a bit leary of the 120s as had a cam sensor problem and you couldn't idle the car with the 120s. Lucky never actually drove the car around with them when the cam sensor issue was happending or it would have had to be flatbedded home and its never seen a tow truck and trying to keep it that way!
The 120s did seem to idle pretty nice when the intermittent problem was not happening. Cam sensor swithes over the car to sequential to batch or vice versa forget already and then 120s don't work it goes pig rich no matter what you do and dies won't stay running.


I just thought 80s would be a bit cleaner setup and still enough for me. Don't need the extra harnesses and the converter box as not running standalone obviously since on this board.

I have had a few guys be nice and send me some numbers to try out on the 60s.
I will plug them in and see what happens. I will be happy to buy Gregs DVD down the road or his at home course maybe too just right now have a 5k 4l80 that have to buy as already sold the t56 and tex twin disc thats in my car now to local buddy. And he wants his stuff.

I am still wondering if that info might be in the upcoming book . Also wondering how useful the older book is would likely pick that up right away.

[The Alchemist]

My problem with getting the DVD is my problem, lack of time to actually sit down and watch it and then tune the car. I've got a full time job, and two children under 3 years of age. So to find time to actually watch the dvd and tune is non-existant. And honestly, I haven't even had time to hook up the dvd player since we got the new tv, so the dvd simply be a coaster and I'd call him to see if I could get the data anyways. Again, my problem, not his. I don't have time anymore to hang out with friends or car guys, so it's not like it's going to hurt his business.
I'm like ALB, I'd like to just get the correct flow settings for my SVO 30lb'ers. I don't race the car, I don't tune other people's cars, I'm not looking to make money off this, I understand it's his data, but I can't see paying as much for the IFR data as I did the actual injectors new and flow matched.

Is he justified in charging $250 for his training dvd, absolutely, but I'm not looking for a 'free' copy of the dvd, I would just like the correct data for my injectors. If the only location for those is on the dvd, then I'm just going to continue going about things this way and hope for the best.
It could be an option that I paypal him $xx dollars for the correct data. Maybe I'll send him a PM and see what he says.

[69lt1bird]

Actually, copying the information and then distributing it is illegal. Telling someone the information is not illegal. ie. if someone like the OP asks for the data for the injectors in question and you tell him the settings in your own words and not a copy or screen shot would not constitute copyright infringement. I am not say its right, but once you buy it you can tell your friends or buddies the settings all you want, just don't copy or burn the information and sell or distribute it.

If I buy a Harry Potter book and read it and tell you what it says verbatim, I am not breaking the law. If I copy the pages and give them to you, now you broke the law.

For RWTD, what do you think will happen with every tune you work on from this day forward. If you post it, the data is now public domain. I know it sucks but Greg knows that as well as anyone else.

[y2konyxss]

My problem with getting the DVD is my problem, lack of time to actually sit down and watch it and then tune the car. I've got a full time job, and two children under 3 years of age. So to find time to actually watch the dvd and tune is non-existant. And honestly, I haven't even had time to hook up the dvd player since we got the new tv, so the dvd simply be a coaster and I'd call him to see if I could get the data anyways. Again, my problem, not his. I don't have time anymore to hang out with friends or car guys, so it's not like it's going to hurt his business.
I'm like ALB, I'd like to just get the correct flow settings for my SVO 30lb'ers. I don't race the car, I don't tune other people's cars, I'm not looking to make money off this, I understand it's his data, but I can't see paying as much for the IFR data as I did the actual injectors new and flow matched.

Is he justified in charging $250 for his training dvd, absolutely, but I'm not looking for a 'free' copy of the dvd, I would just like the correct data for my injectors. If the only location for those is on the dvd, then I'm just going to continue going about things this way and hope for the best.
It could be an option that I paypal him $xx dollars for the correct data. Maybe I'll send him a PM and see what he says.

I agree with this statement, if Greg wants to charge me to information without me purchasing the DVD name the price and i will paypal for proper injector data.

[RWTD]

Actually, copying the information and then distributing it is illegal. Telling someone the information is not illegal. ie. if someone like the OP asks for the data for the injectors in question and you tell him the settings in your own words and not a copy or screen shot would not constitute copyright infringement. I am not say its right, but once you buy it you can tell your friends or buddies the settings all you want, just don't copy or burn the information and sell or distribute it.

It clearly says "Not for public distribution" on each of the calibration files that Greg includes with his DVD. Distribution has been found in case law to be either copy, show, or tell. If you're not given a license to distribute this information elsewhere of you, then you're breaking the law if you do such. On top of that, you'll be frowned upon in this community if you do such, and we all know how rough it can be when that happens.

If I buy a Harry Potter book and read it and tell you what it says verbatim, I am not breaking the law. If I copy the pages and give them to you, now you broke the law.

This is software we're talking about here. Books and software have completely different laws pertaining to them. The software Greg sells is clearly marked with what not to do.

For RWTD, what do you think will happen with every tune you work on from this day forward. If you post it, the data is now public domain. I know it sucks but Greg knows that as well as anyone else.

#1, I'll never post up files that have his injector data in them. And, #2, I specifically tell all my customers to not share the data (they have to agree before I give them any tune). I also ask that if they do have to post up their tune, and it has Greg's injector data in it, to remove it out before posting.

[The Alchemist]

So if I buy the dvd, and my friend wants to borrow it and watch it as well, then he's stealing it? Is that the same with the books he's put out? So I guess it's licensed for my eyes only.

Again, even if I buy the dvd, I don't have the time to watch it to get the needed info.

Maybe instead of dealing with one of his security gaurds, I'll just talk to him directly.

I'm not trying to steal anything from anyone, I'm just trying to get the correct information for my setup.

[RWTD]

Again, even if I buy the dvd, I don't have the time to watch it to get the needed info.

If you buy it, the data you want is right there without having to "watch" the training portion of it. The injector calibration data are all in excel based formats, so all you would do is open the one pertaining to your injectors and copy/paste. You would not put anymore time into doing this than you would by reading these posts on this forum (you have time for that, right? ).

So if I buy the dvd, and my friend wants to borrow it and watch it as well, then he's stealing it? Is that the same with the books he's put out? So I guess it's licensed for my eyes only.

Maybe instead of dealing with one of his security gaurds, I'll just talk to him directly.

I'm not trying to steal anything from anyone, I'm just trying to get the correct information for my setup.

I'm not his security guard. I'm his friend, yes, but this is NOT about that. This is about right and wrong.

If you distribute the DVD, you would be breaking the law. Yes, even if you let your friend "borrow" it. Your friend did not purchase it, you did, and the license is for you. It's not any different than if you gave your friend a copy of Microsoft Office that you purchased. Not a knock on you or anyone else, but I still can't believe in this day/time we're arguing over what is right/wrong with software, music, movie, or book distribution! We ALL know it's illegal to do things like this.

Law pertains to what the "agreement" is on what you purchase. Case in point, if you purchase a book on an online "kindle", and then you let a friend use it or borrow it afterwards, you just broke the law. Here's a good thread pertaining to such:

If I purchase a book on a kindle, is it wrong for me to let a friend install it on her kindle after I am done reading it?

This really is not that hard to fathom.

[The Alchemist]

First off, I go to work to relax, I'm at work right now, but my hptuners and car are not here. Hell, I can't even use the bathroom alone at home without someone screaming and crying at me.

So if I understand you correctly. I cannot have anyone else around when I watch the dvd or else it's stealing? I'm not talking about giving it to someone else, I'm talking about sitting down with a buddy, and watching it to discuss, not that I have the time to have a social life or anyone over.

I think you missed my point. I'm not arguing with you about someone giving me free information. I simply asked if there was a way I could just purchase the correct injector information. Hell, the manufacturer should give it out for free, but they don't or at least I haven't seen it.

[The Alchemist]

Also, you keep comparing it to software, and yes it's illegal to copy software or install it on two seperate machines. But with the dvd, only one person can 'own' it at a time. So if I buy it, watch it, then decide to sell it to someone else, is that wrong? Or what if I buy it, watch it, then give it to them as a gift. Once I give it to them, I no longer have a copy of it.

[RWTD]

I realize you have a busy family life (God knows most all of us do). However, having an excel spreadsheet that lets you copy/paste data into your tune is as simple as 1, 2, 3. It would take you less than 5 minutes to do this. Then, when you get a break, and are able to tune in peace (), then rock on!

This particular DVD is considered software by legal definition, and case law has backed up this over the years. As for selling the DVD, sure, you have a right to sell something, but the license is also for you. You can't sell your Microsoft Office license. Did Greg go to that extent of stating such in the opening credits? Did Greg bulletproof it requiring security keys? That really doesn't matter so much, as that's more or less the software "giants" doing such to prevent rampant piracy. The "little" guys don't have such resources at their disposal, so they rely on honesty and good faith.

We have seen countless copyright issues arise over the years, especially in the electronics day and age. Questions concerning right/wrong like this are still an "assumed" knowledge, just as all other laws are in this country, and I have never seen the law not favor the software, book, music, or movie companies/manufacturers/owners, and rightfully so!

Questions like this shouldn't be posed here for everyone to nitpick and argue about "but I should be able to do what I want". We all know right from wrong. If you have questions concerning it, PM or email Greg in private, and get his opinion on it. All in all, it's really not about this, but more or less that new data is out that finally allows one to complete the full tuning process on a GM, and now we're all thirsty for it. Obviously that's going to create chatter.

[The Alchemist]

I can see your point, and point well taken. I'm not endorsing nor would I ever try and hurt his business by trying to undermine his efforts. Chances are pretty good, I'll just order the dvd and be done with it. I didn't realize that the info was contained in a seperate format that I can just plug n chug with and later on go back and watch the dvd and learn some more. Chances are that it won't be for a few years till the kids are a little older and don't want to be around Daddy anymore. Hell, I used to relax by riding the John Deere around listening to music, pretending like it was work to mow the lawn, now I have to have my son ride with me or else he screams and chases after me.

I'll just order the dvd. I didn't mean to cause a scene.

[roberttimmons]

I dont understand? We need DVD's and special spreadsheets to tune 60# injectors now?

Can somebody link me to this dvd? I must be missing alot because I normally change the IFR and maybe a couple other small settings then get to work on the VE than the maf and its NAILED.. But Id be interested in learning more maybe a way to possibly speed up the process??? 249 bucks for an easier way . Count me in ..

[RWTD]

I dont understand? We need DVD's and special spreadsheets to tune 60# injectors now?

Can somebody link me to this dvd? I must be missing alot because I normally change the IFR and maybe a couple other small settings then get to work on the VE than the maf and its NAILED.. But Id be interested in learning more maybe a way to possibly speed up the process??? 249 bucks for an easier way . Count me in ..

Yes, you MUST have ALL the injector calibration data inputted, otherwise you're not allowing the injector to operate correctly and efficiently. As Greg (eficalibrator) said, "Tuning WOT is so easy trained monkeys can do it. Getting the part throttle behavior, idle quality, cruise efficiency and emissions right is an entirely different game. Getting the part throttle behavior, idle quality, cruise efficiency and emissions right is an entirely different game." So, you see, it's more than just about speeding up the process. Your tune is ultimately "raped" without ALL of the proper injector data.

Speaking of Greg, he is the individual offering the DVD. See here to watch a demo:

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22787

Go here to purchase it:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SME-DVD-1/

Greg covers basically all the injectors that Ford Racing offers for sell, which are listed below. Also, Greg covers the Siemens "shorty" 60s, as seen here:

http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.a...114962&eq=&Tp=

Part Number  Flow    Body Imped  Len Conn    Cal Data
M-9593-A302  24 #/hr EV6  11-18  L   Jet/Min Link
M-9593-AA302 24 #/hr EV6  11-18  L   Jet/Min Link
M-9593-B302  30 #/hr EV6  11-18  L   Jet/Min Link
M-9593-BB302 30 #/hr EV6  11-18  L   Jet/Min Link
M-9593-M39   39 #/hr EV6  11-18  L   USCAR   Link
M-9593-F302  42 #/hr EV1  11-18  L   Jet/Min Link
M-9593-G302  47 #/hr EV14 11-18  M   USCAR   Link
M-9593-LU60  60 #/hr EV6  11-12  L   USCAR   Link
M-9593-LU80  80 #/hr EV6  11-12  L   USCAR   Link

Keys:
Flow = Flow Rate in lb/hr of injector at 39.15 psi
Body = Body style of injector
Imped = Ohms value
Len = Length of injector (L = long, M = Medium)
Conn = Connector style of injector (Jetronic is the old rectangle style conn, and USCAR is the new smaller square conn)
Cal Data: Links you to the actual Ford Racing injector calibration data you will use to input into your tuning software (note, this data is for Ford vehicles, and will not work if you attempt to use with other non-Ford vehicles)

Notes:
M-9593-A302 and M-9593-B302 are the old "blue tops" and "red tops", respectively, and both "fat bodies", that are not produced any longer.
M-9593-LU60 and M-9593-LU80 are the Siemens (Continental) injector that Ford Racing offers. The LU80 is the original equipment used on the FR500CJ Mustang.
M-9593-F302 is the original equipment on the '99-'04 SVT Lightning.
M-9593-G302 is the original equipment on the '07-'10 GT500.
M-9593-M39 is the original equipment on the '03-'04 SVT Cobra.

[roberttimmons]

Thanks for that info. I will be ordering soon..

[The Alchemist]

Okay RWTD, my injectors aren't even on that list.... what now...?

[RWTD]

Okay RWTD, my injectors aren't even on that list.... what now...?

What injectors do you actually have? Brand and part #.

If Greg doesn't support them, he doesn't. He can't build calibration for them without the manufacturers supplying the necessary data that is required, unfortunately.