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Thread: 6L80E with big horsepower

  1. #1
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    Question 6L80E with big horsepower

    Has anyone had success tuning this tranny above the ~ 600 RWHP level?

    We've done many of these tunes, and been very happy with this tranny in the G8. But once we crossed the ~ 600 RWHP level, we can't seem to find a way to keep from hitting the limiter in the lower gears instead of upshifting on time. We've tried all the usual fixes, including padding the WOT shift points by 10%, 20% or more. Even in Manual mode, the tranny seems to prefer bouncing off the rev limiter over upshifting. Fourth gear and up is fine, lower boost is fine, and lighter throttle is also fine.

    Thanks in advance for anyone who's had some success with tuning this tranny in high horsepower applications.
    2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing (733 whp)
    2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing (716 whp), 10.750 @ 134.77 mph
    2016 Cadillac ATS-Vs (eleven ATS-Vs in the 9s)
    2008 Pontiac G8 (first G8 in the 10s), 10.727 @ 129.87 mph
    2000 Bonneville SSEi (first 3800 Bonneville in the 10s), 10.711 @ 125.71 mph
    1999 Grand Prix GT (first 3800 FWD in the 8s), 8.902 @ 154.90 mph
    1998 Firebird (first 3800 RWD in the 8s), 843 whp, 8.991 @ 152.12 mph
    1998 Grand Prix GTP (first 3800 FWD in the 10s), 9.499 @ 145.13 mph

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner S2H's Avatar
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    try setting the WOT shift MPH upshift to 0
    and set all of the shift properties desired shift times to 0

    this will help a lot
    problem is that the tranny is just really slow so you have to set it somewhat early...
    by getting rid of the adaptive shift learning(the desired shift times set to 0) you gain some control over it and can make it predictable
    -Scott -

  3. #3
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    try setting the WOT shift MPH upshift to 0
    Appreciate the help, but I don't understand this suggestion. What will trigger the upshifts if I set all those tables to zero?
    2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing (733 whp)
    2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing (716 whp), 10.750 @ 134.77 mph
    2016 Cadillac ATS-Vs (eleven ATS-Vs in the 9s)
    2008 Pontiac G8 (first G8 in the 10s), 10.727 @ 129.87 mph
    2000 Bonneville SSEi (first 3800 Bonneville in the 10s), 10.711 @ 125.71 mph
    1999 Grand Prix GT (first 3800 FWD in the 8s), 8.902 @ 154.90 mph
    1998 Firebird (first 3800 RWD in the 8s), 843 whp, 8.991 @ 152.12 mph
    1998 Grand Prix GTP (first 3800 FWD in the 10s), 9.499 @ 145.13 mph

  4. #4
    Tuner in Training trx2stroke4life39's Avatar
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    By setting those table to 0 once it hits the desired RPM the tranny will shift. It has to meet both a certain RPM and a Certain MPH before it will shift. So by setting the MPH to 0 it only needs to hit the desired shift RPM to up shift.
    2001- Silverado 4.8, coldair intake, custom catback, headers, Stohner Tuned
    2003- durmax dads truck.Yet to be tuned completely.

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    Gotcha. I missed that the RPM tables would NOT be changing to zero.

    I'll give ths a try...
    2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing (733 whp)
    2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing (716 whp), 10.750 @ 134.77 mph
    2016 Cadillac ATS-Vs (eleven ATS-Vs in the 9s)
    2008 Pontiac G8 (first G8 in the 10s), 10.727 @ 129.87 mph
    2000 Bonneville SSEi (first 3800 Bonneville in the 10s), 10.711 @ 125.71 mph
    1999 Grand Prix GT (first 3800 FWD in the 8s), 8.902 @ 154.90 mph
    1998 Firebird (first 3800 RWD in the 8s), 843 whp, 8.991 @ 152.12 mph
    1998 Grand Prix GTP (first 3800 FWD in the 10s), 9.499 @ 145.13 mph

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner Mep_q8's Avatar
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    please let me know if u sort out the upshift.. i keep hitting the rev limiter no matter what i do.. i have to let my foot off the gas now for it to shift... sometimes it gets annoying

    Bader Norris
    MEP Tuned
    Telephone: +965-55446651
    Email: [email protected]
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    Subn

  8. #8
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    What kind of car is it and did you change the factory gear or the torque converter?

  9. #9
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    I experienced this today at the track. I kept backing off the MPH and the RPM with no luck.

    I won't be going to the track for a bit. If anybody tries this with success please post up.

    Thanks.

  10. #10
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    What kind of car is it and did you change the factory gear or the torque converter?
    2008 Pontiac G8 GT, L76, A6 with stock gears and torque converter still.

    723 RWHP on pump gas!
    2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing (733 whp)
    2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing (716 whp), 10.750 @ 134.77 mph
    2016 Cadillac ATS-Vs (eleven ATS-Vs in the 9s)
    2008 Pontiac G8 (first G8 in the 10s), 10.727 @ 129.87 mph
    2000 Bonneville SSEi (first 3800 Bonneville in the 10s), 10.711 @ 125.71 mph
    1999 Grand Prix GT (first 3800 FWD in the 8s), 8.902 @ 154.90 mph
    1998 Firebird (first 3800 RWD in the 8s), 843 whp, 8.991 @ 152.12 mph
    1998 Grand Prix GTP (first 3800 FWD in the 10s), 9.499 @ 145.13 mph

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by g8_795 View Post
    I experienced this today at the track. I kept backing off the MPH and the RPM with no luck.
    What mods have you installed between the time when it used to shift properly and now? In other wards, did you change your gears, install a power adder, or mess with tranny tables and trigger the problem that way?
    2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing (733 whp)
    2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing (716 whp), 10.750 @ 134.77 mph
    2016 Cadillac ATS-Vs (eleven ATS-Vs in the 9s)
    2008 Pontiac G8 (first G8 in the 10s), 10.727 @ 129.87 mph
    2000 Bonneville SSEi (first 3800 Bonneville in the 10s), 10.711 @ 125.71 mph
    1999 Grand Prix GT (first 3800 FWD in the 8s), 8.902 @ 154.90 mph
    1998 Firebird (first 3800 RWD in the 8s), 843 whp, 8.991 @ 152.12 mph
    1998 Grand Prix GTP (first 3800 FWD in the 10s), 9.499 @ 145.13 mph

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTENSE-Racing View Post
    What mods have you installed between the time when it used to shift properly and now? In other wards, did you change your gears, install a power adder, or mess with tranny tables and trigger the problem that way?
    Post your tune as I drag race two and sometimes three times a week.

    Setting your shift MPH to zero is absolutely the wrong way to go because despite what it's supposed to do according to HP Tuners, it only shifts based on MPH. As an example, my 1-2 shift RPM is set to 3900 yet the only way to change that is by altering the MPH.

  13. #13
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    I just tried it and the part throttle reminds me of an old school B&M shift kit that felt like it kicks you when it shifts. lol I could not go WOT because Johnny law was all over.

  14. #14
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    I am having the same issue also.

  15. #15
    My basically stock 07 Denali has this problem if I turn off the torque management. I could never get around it so I have to keep the TM on.

  16. #16
    Advanced Tuner johnh's Avatar
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    it only shifts based on MPH
    Granted I am not pushing high HP, but my scans go like this: Current Gear changes when MPH is reached, but it doesn't seem to actually start the shift until the RPM is reached. Even at my near stock power levels it doesn't seem like its predictable as far as actual shift...at the track Saturday I hit the 2-3 limiter twice with a 300 rpm difference between limiter and shift rpm.

    getting rid of the adaptive shift learning
    Couldn't you just disable the adaptive upshift? Not sure how that affects the pressure though

    It almost seems like there's a TQ limiter in there preventing the shift, by confusing the TCM calculations. Have the guys at Livernois seen this problem too?
    2017 Chevrolet SS, Orange Blast Metallic, Rotofab CAI. Headers coming soon. Stock Tune for now
    Previous Rides: 2008 G8 GT, 2004 GTO, 2004 GTP, 2002 TA

  17. #17
    Senior Tuner Mep_q8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69redmach1 View Post
    My basically stock 07 Denali has this problem if I turn off the torque management. I could never get around it so I have to keep the TM on.
    Quote Originally Posted by INTENSE-Racing View Post
    Gotcha. I missed that the RPM tables would NOT be changing to zero.

    I'll give ths a try...

    not too sure if this will help you guys, but i just looked over my tune and found that I set my Fuel Cutoff RPM vs Gear to 6000 and every other limiter to 6400rpm. WOT shifts set at 6100rpm.

    No wonder it didn't work out for me!!

    Take a look at the images attached. This might be something you guys have already looked over, but I haven't yet. And since my cars in the Impound, I won't be able to try it out for another 2 days.

    Bader Norris
    MEP Tuned
    Telephone: +965-55446651
    Email: [email protected]
    Instagram

  18. #18
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    Appreciate the thought, but we've already covered all the 'usual' limiters. This is something new that reared it's ugly head once we crossed the 600 WHP threshold.
    2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing (733 whp)
    2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing (716 whp), 10.750 @ 134.77 mph
    2016 Cadillac ATS-Vs (eleven ATS-Vs in the 9s)
    2008 Pontiac G8 (first G8 in the 10s), 10.727 @ 129.87 mph
    2000 Bonneville SSEi (first 3800 Bonneville in the 10s), 10.711 @ 125.71 mph
    1999 Grand Prix GT (first 3800 FWD in the 8s), 8.902 @ 154.90 mph
    1998 Firebird (first 3800 RWD in the 8s), 843 whp, 8.991 @ 152.12 mph
    1998 Grand Prix GTP (first 3800 FWD in the 10s), 9.499 @ 145.13 mph

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTENSE-Racing View Post
    What mods have you installed between the time when it used to shift properly and now? In other wards, did you change your gears, install a power adder, or mess with tranny tables and trigger the problem that way?
    Installed a cam and stall. But one thing that I noticed that changes your shift timing is the TM value. I have to run this test again, but when I had 0.5 TM for all gears, it shifted where I wanted it to (not what the RPM or MPH was set to, but numbers that finally got me where I wanted to shift at). When I changed my TM value to 0, my shift points all moved to the right.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by trx2stroke4life39 View Post
    By setting those table to 0 once it hits the desired RPM the tranny will shift. It has to meet both a certain RPM and a Certain MPH before it will shift. So by setting the MPH to 0 it only needs to hit the desired shift RPM to up shift.
    I tried what you recommended and it did seem to help somewhat...

    This past weekend I went to the track and the 2-3 shift didn’t happen until after the 7,000 rpm rev limiter had been hit, even though the commanded shift point was 5,100 rpm. For the next run, I changed the 2-3 WOT commanded shift point back UP to 5,700, yet the shift occurred EARLIER on this run at 6,700 rpm. It almost seems like parts of the upshift table are random, or there’s some other contributing factor here that I am unaware of.
    2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing (733 whp)
    2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing (716 whp), 10.750 @ 134.77 mph
    2016 Cadillac ATS-Vs (eleven ATS-Vs in the 9s)
    2008 Pontiac G8 (first G8 in the 10s), 10.727 @ 129.87 mph
    2000 Bonneville SSEi (first 3800 Bonneville in the 10s), 10.711 @ 125.71 mph
    1999 Grand Prix GT (first 3800 FWD in the 8s), 8.902 @ 154.90 mph
    1998 Firebird (first 3800 RWD in the 8s), 843 whp, 8.991 @ 152.12 mph
    1998 Grand Prix GTP (first 3800 FWD in the 10s), 9.499 @ 145.13 mph