Hi guys
I am going out of my mind trying to stop the 3rd gear slip when its in auto(sport or normal)
If I put it into manual shift its locks up nicely.
Now it is a territory and the box has been rebuilt, This issue has only come up since changing over from Sct.
Any ideas or pointers would be very handy at this time.
bugsy,
Check out post 772 & 775 of this thread:
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...l=1#post346785
Looks like Peppy_t was having a similar issue and found a way around it.
Maybe PM him to see if the same issue. Would be interested in the outcome.
Darryl.
Last edited by DarrylC; 05-27-2014 at 08:07 PM.
what protocol does it use is just a elm 327 passthrough
Better late than never (Others feel free to chime in if I'm not 100% correct)Originally Posted by Peppy_t
Driver Demand- Multiplier for driver demand vs actual torque. Applies the multiplier to the indicated engine torque value for the condition the reduce/increases spark and lambda. Can be used to limit torque output for give rpm/throttle position.
Trans Trunc-Multiplier for Trans Torque Limit Applies the multiplier to the indicated engine to reduce torque transmitted through the trans.
TVA- - TCS? Traction Control Torque reduction multiplier. Applies the multiplier to the indicated engine torque to give a calculated torque reduction .5 = 50% of indicated torque when TCS is activated
CSS limit -VSS Torque reduction to reduce Vehicle speed
Rpm limit- Torque reduction to reduce engine rpm
Tip in limit - Spark advance ramp rate
Tip out limit -Spark retard ramp rate
Trans shift - Tran shift torque reduction. Again the multiplier is applied to the Indicated torque figure for the particular condition
Eng over temp - Torque reduction for Eng temp
Rpm yard -RPM Guard Hard cut rev limiter. My understanding is that it cuts fuel and spark. Soft cut reduces timing and ETC opening value. Hard cut will cut fuel/spark and close throttle.
PATS- Torqure Reduction if PATS is active. More of a fuel system parameter than a Spark. Basically shuts off fuel if the pats is active. No real reason to change this.
Tip in Osc - Toads??
Cruise - Max torque for cruise control speed adjustments. Stops the car running away when setting/adjusting the cruise speed. I'd recommend you leave this alone unless you have an issue with the car running on. If you do, reduce the multiplier.
Last edited by hiddeous; 05-27-2014 at 08:47 PM.
04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6
I noticed the other day that HPT are displaying the speed density units as kpa. These should be displayed as inHg as the MAP per Airmass is a unit less figure. If you are trying to use your logged (or hypothetical) MAP values to determine expected airmass and load values (to write a base tune) then you will end up with very random results.
If you're experiencing TS 13 (output state control?....) you generally find you're throttle cutting. To disable you need to raise the RPM threshold.
Next time I'm on my computer I'll have a quick look at what I changed, it was mainly to do with torque management, but your issue sounds a little different to mine Bugsy
Thanks Hiddeous So the indicated Engine Torque table actually does something? Haha.. How do you alter it? Just get it as close to reality as possible? Will a higher or lower value then actual torque change anything?
Also where in the trans menu do you start to up the shift pressure's...
I have just invested in the KPM 1000hp fuel module and judging by the changes I'm making to the injector scaling my old 400lt walbro was at it's limits... So I have a lot more room to play now
I generally don't alter it, if you want to increase the shift firmness increase the indicated torque. The ZF Pcm will see this and increase the pressure within it range. It's quite easy to make it horrible to drive. Keep in mind if you alter your Indicated torque table your torque management tables will all need to be adjusted as well, otherwise Trq Mgmt will start to come into play.
Is your car a ZF6? If it is we don't have access to the trans parameters yet.....but it's coming right Eric???
Hiddeous aka Ralph Wiggum from the turbo forum.
04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6
I see, I'll have to have a play with it.
Yea, BF mk2.. My tune file has quite a few paramiters in the trans menu?
Ahh Ralphy, I think you've helped me out before haha
They are old 4spd parameter. You can change them all you like they wont have any effect.
04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6
I do not believe you are correct in saying the "the MAP per Airmass is a unit less figure". I believe they are always displayed in the same units (inHg/lb air).
If you set the options to metric then some of the values will be displayed in kpa however the "MAP per Airmass" table is not "unit less" but in units of inHg/lb of Air no matter what you set the units to. I think this is a mistake in the VCM software. I did a lot of work around these tables only to find they were not working, reported the bug and Eric found out that for the turbo Ausy sixes there was another set of "High Res" tables that was being used exclusively.
You are correct is pointing out that the calculations for MAP should always be done in inHg.
Very interested in how load is calculated on turbo Ausy sixes.
In the very simplest form, I.e. Not accounting for y-intercept and VE corrections... LOAD = ((MAP - MAP@Zero_Airmas)/MAP_Per_AIRMASS))/Cylinder_Displacement
Where MAP is in inHg, MAP@Zero_Airmas is in inHg, Cylinder_Displacement is in lb (taken direct from the calibration) and yeah I guess the slope will be in inHg per lb per intake stroke.
IH8TOADS,
Brilliant, thank you, that was what I was guessing (basically the Paul Yaw VE calculation). A similar calculation pops up a lot when calculating the new MAP tables values from fuel trims.
Not sure what you mean by the y-intercept. This confirms to me it is a bit of a catch 22 in that in order to get the two MAP table values you need either the cam angle or the load value to get the cam angle. To simulate new values in the tables I assumed a certain loads and calculated the new aircharge and got that into the range I wanted.
Again, thank you.
Basically the end result is that starting with correct Injector Scaling, if you're actual lambda is rich/lean by the same amount at two different MAP points, then your MAP_Per_AIRMASS is out. A higher number produces a lower calculated airmass for a given MAP and will therefore reduce the inj PW. If you're actual lambda is as commanded at MAP point 1 but not as commanded at MAP point 2 (same RPM breakpoint) then the MAP@Zero_AIRMASS is out. Given that there is a unique slope and offset for each cam angle, the XR6T is one hard car to tune perfectly
IH8TOADS,Basically the end result is that starting with correct Injector Scaling, if you're actual lambda is rich/lean by the same amount at two different MAP points, then your MAP_Per_AIRMASS is out. A higher number produces a lower calculated airmass for a given MAP and will therefore reduce the inj PW. If you're actual lambda is as commanded at MAP point 1 but not as commanded at MAP point 2 (same RPM breakpoint) then the MAP@Zero_AIRMASS is out. Given that there is a unique slope and offset for each cam angle, the XR6T is one hard car to tune perfectly
Injector scaling seems to be a bit of a tricky point. I originally had Bosch 968s and took a while to get these set up well but I was always annoyed there was no Ford data for them. Then I switched to 550cc Bosch injectors (0 280 158 117s) that are claimed to be Ford Motorsport (M-953-G302) and the scaling looks good for most of the rev range but they have a weird idle fuel trim of +20% and lean above 5000rpm. I guess there is either something else going on or they are not the Ford equivalent.
With respect to the two MAP tables I did a lot of data collection (MAP, Temp, Fuel Trims, Cam angle and a few others) and used Paul's equations to calculate the Airmass, corrected it to desired and then did a regression analysis on the corrected values to work out the new MAP table values.
My problem is that I have petrol injectors and LPG injectors and they have different characteristics so I am getting the LPG as good as I can and the petrol will be OK when cruising and RICH under full throttle (power robbing rich).
Cool, sounds like you have spent some lengthy hours on it. It is quite tricky and the LPG scenario won't help. I gather you have amended the stoich value for the LPG? I would re-calibrate on petrol as you will have the most accurate data to start with. Kudos for the effort!!!
Thank you, your feedback is, as usual, brilliant.
You don't need to change the stioch value because they try and match the LPG injector flow to petrol so that the engine sees the same level of rich/lean at the same pulse widths, or that is the theory
I would be most concerned with getting the airflow calculation correct, and it sounds like it would be most accurate to do that using petrol. With a stand alone LPG injector, you're probably chasing your tail. The injector characteristics will be different between petrol and LPG injectors. So when you're operating below the injector breakpoint and the injector battery offset/deadtime has a large contribution to the total pulsewidth you will find it hard to match the actual lambda. At greater pulsewidths above the breakpoint you should have more accurate matching of lambda. In short I personally would tune on petrol and then have the LPG matched as best you can when running on the high slope. This is coming from someone with no LPG experience, so keep that in mind!!Thank you, your feedback is, as usual, brilliant.
You don't need to change the stioch value because they try and match the LPG injector flow to petrol so that the engine sees the same level of rich/lean at the same pulse widths, or that is the theory
That is exactly the way to do this so with no LPG experience you hit the nail on the head.
I am doing it slightly differently as I want the LPG to be great and the petrol OK (we go through 1 tank of petrol for over 10 tanks of LPG but it still has to start on petrol and switch over when the LPG runs out).
