LNF Torque and Load Values

[405HP_Z06]

I’m looking for some clarification concerning engine torque %, air load %, and their appropriate connecting functions in the scanner.
From what I see the following tables use air load % on the column axis:

• Optimum Engine Torque
• MAF Correction [Base]
• CAT Over Temp Protection [Lambda B1] – The label on this table is “Load (RPM)” but based on the units is obviously air load %.
• Main Spark Advance tables
• Camshaft Base Angle tables

The load in these tables correlates to the ‘Load’ sensor [SENS.109] in the scanner.

The following tables seem to use engine torque % on the column axis:

• Power Enrich Lambda
• Desired Air Load
• Max Air Load Torque – This table uses engine torque % in the row axis, not the column axis.
• Max Torque
• Max Engine Torque vs. RPM vs. Gear
• Max Torque vs. RPM - This table uses engine torque % in the row axis, not the column axis.

The load in these tables doesn’t correlate to anything in the scanner that I can find.

Can someone from HPT comment on these types of load and their appropriate correlation in the scanner?
One point of confusion is both torque and air load are both labeled as '%' which I understand because that's what they are; however, a little more description in the label would distinguish between the two.


Thanks for the support.

[405HP_Z06]

TTT, anyone?

[JANNETTYRACING]

I don't know if this helps but think of % load as manifold pressure in Bar.

1 Bar = 100% Load or atmosperhic pressure
2 Bar = 200% Load or 15 psi boost pressure
3 Bar = 300% Load or 30 psi boost pressure.

Ted.

[405HP_Z06]

I don't know if this helps but think of % load as manifold pressure in Bar.

1 Bar = 100% Load or atmosperhic pressure
2 Bar = 200% Load or 15 psi boost pressure
3 Bar = 300% Load or 30 psi boost pressure.

Ted.

Thanks Ted. I’m really trying to figure out the engine torque load % that is the column axis and some row axis' in the tables listed above. I can log air load, but I can't log engine torque that corresponds to these tables.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Thanks Ted. I’m really trying to figure out the engine torque load % that is the column axis and some row axis' in the tables listed above. I can log air load, but I can't log engine torque that corresponds to these tables.

They are the same as far as I know.

Load is a calculated value, Fords use this in all they're Computers.

[Chris@HPTuners]

The following tables seem to use engine torque % on the column axis:

• Power Enrich Lambda
• Desired Air Load
• Max Air Load Torque – This table uses engine torque % in the row axis, not the column axis.
• Max Torque
• Max Engine Torque vs. RPM vs. Gear
• Max Torque vs. RPM - This table uses engine torque % in the row axis, not the column axis.

The load in these tables doesn’t correlate to anything in the scanner that I can find.

Can someone from HPT comment on these types of load and their appropriate correlation in the scanner?
One point of confusion is both torque and air load are both labeled as '%' which I understand because that's what they are; however, a little more description in the label would distinguish between the two.


Thanks for the support.

The mouseover help usually gives the answer. Some of these use Desired torque (calculated from pedal input) and others use actual engine torque (calculated).

Desired torque doesn't look like it can be scanned.

[JANNETTYRACING]

That makes more sense, thanks for clearing that up.

Ted.

[Baldturbofreak.com]

The mouseover help usually gives the answer. Some of these use Desired torque (calculated from pedal input) and others use actual engine torque (calculated).

Desired torque doesn't look like it can be scanned.

Sure it can,it's called requested TPS.

[air1kdf]

Sure it can,it's called requested TPS.

I have my doubts about that. I think that it's load or air load. But the 90% column seems to be what's being commanded at WOT. Also anything over 254 or 255 seems to be read as the max value. I tried 500 with no apparent affect.

[Chris@HPTuners]

desired torque is looked up from a table based on pedal % and RPM. at 100% pedal it is always 100% desired torque.

[air1kdf]

desired torque is looked up from a table based on pedal % and RPM. at 100% pedal it is always 100% desired torque.

I have the exception.

In log boost low at 3520RPM's I average 18.20 Lbs boost, at 5500 RPM's I average 15.32 100% pedal at frame 382.

In log boost High at 3520 RPM's I average 14.04 lbs boost, at 5500 RPM's I average 20.34 lbs boost 100% pedal at frame 1275.

Everything is stock except for the apparent changes in the desired air load table as shown in the jpg files. Note that it defeats logic (in my mind), and I'm not confused on which log was for what.

So... on my car... the 90% column is how I adjust boost (at least it's one of the tables).

I would LOVE for somebody else to try this simple test, to verify this in their car.

BTW, I just love HPTuners. I will have a knowledge that most people won't even understand, let alone be able to do. It's like having your cake and eating it too!

[405HP_Z06]

Kurt,
I'll run this same test and post the results.

[405HP_Z06]

The mouseover help usually gives the answer. Some of these use Desired torque (calculated from pedal input) and others use actual engine torque (calculated).

Desired torque doesn't look like it can be scanned.

Thanks Chris, the mouseover help doesn't explicitly explain which table uses which torque/load; hence the nature of my question.

So, Is the ETC Pedal Position % PID the closest loggable parameter that gets me to desired torque? Which PID depicts actual engine torque (calculated)?

Sure it can,it's called requested TPS.

BTF, I don't see 'requested TPS'. Is this ETC Pedal Position?

[Baldturbofreak.com]

yup,ETC PDL.
follows your foot to the letter.

[405HP_Z06]

yup,ETC PDL.
follows your foot to the letter.

Thanks, that's the one I've been using primarily. It's interesting to see the other ETC PIDS, the PCM is doing a lot of throttle blade control.

[air1kdf]

yup,ETC PDL.
follows your foot to the letter.

On my car I had 50% pdl pos, and the air load went to about 240, yet in the table I had about 80. Then I looked at ETC position and ETC desired position and they were about 96 and 97%. That explained that.
Please don't think that I'm dogging you because I have a lot of respect for the things that you do, you you have way more knowledge than I do...

Also can we get actual engine torque (calculated) PID, or Delivered Engine Torque, or Delivered transmission Torque?

[mikeysolstice]

Enter 100 in your max air load torque table and see if it starts taking boost from the 100% column. My suspicion is that the commanded torque is in the 90% column due to your values in the max air load torque table. In other words, you may be at 100% pedal but the ECM may only be commanding 90% torque.

Mike

I have the exception.

In log boost low at 3520RPM's I average 18.20 Lbs boost, at 5500 RPM's I average 15.32 100% pedal at frame 382.

In log boost High at 3520 RPM's I average 14.04 lbs boost, at 5500 RPM's I average 20.34 lbs boost 100% pedal at frame 1275.

Everything is stock except for the apparent changes in the desired air load table as shown in the jpg files. Note that it defeats logic (in my mind), and I'm not confused on which log was for what.

So... on my car... the 90% column is how I adjust boost (at least it's one of the tables).

I would LOVE for somebody else to try this simple test, to verify this in their car.

BTW, I just love HPTuners. I will have a knowledge that most people won't even understand, let alone be able to do. It's like having your cake and eating it too!

[405HP_Z06]

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...064#post146064

[mikeysolstice]

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...064#post146064

Diagram seems to agree with what I said above.

Mike

[405HP_Z06]

On my car I had 50% pdl pos, and the air load went to about 240, yet in the table I had about 80. Then I looked at ETC position and ETC desired position and they were about 96 and 97%. That explained that.
Please don't think that I'm dogging you because I have a lot of respect for the things that you do, you you have way more knowledge than I do...

Also can we get actual engine torque (calculated) PID, or Delivered Engine Torque, or Delivered transmission Torque?

One important characteristic of GDI is the total disconnection and non-linear control of the throttle blade and accelerator pedal. The table we don't see is engine speed vs. pedal angle vs. relative torque. This table influences the situation you stated above.