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Thread: New A6 Transmission parameters walkthrough

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomer View Post
    yes, i think it equals to this:

    Normal:
    'pressure pattern select' is 'normal shift' which is 'pattern X mode'
    'pressure pattern mode' is 'normal'.

    Sport/Performance Mode:
    'pressure pattern select' is 'pattern A shift' which is 'pattern Y mode'
    'pressure pattern mode' is 'special'.

    TUTD/Manual Mode:
    'pressure pattern select' is 'TUTD Man shift' which is 'pattern Z mode'
    'pressure pattern mode' is 'special'.
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomer View Post
    yes, i think it equals to this:

    Normal:
    'pressure pattern select' is 'normal shift' which is 'pattern X mode'
    'pressure pattern mode' is 'normal'.

    Sport/Performance Mode:
    'pressure pattern select' is 'pattern A shift' which is 'pattern Y mode'
    'pressure pattern mode' is 'special'.

    TUTD/Manual Mode:
    'pressure pattern select' is 'TUTD Man shift' which is 'pattern Z mode'
    'pressure pattern mode' is 'special'.
    I'm not sure if this is the same thing you were trying to say, but it's been my experience that if you have different values for Normal and Pattern A, the values for Normal will supercede the Pattern A values.

  3. #83
    guys, the logic behind the shift pattern selecting is like this:

    Trans -> Shift Properties, Shift Pattern Type
    - this controls how Shift Pattern A & B are selected for the Shift Mode. The newer cars use a CAN signal from the vehicle bus to send a message to the TCM. For the G8 it is set to Normal for Pattern A & Performance for Pattern B.

    historically Pattern A would be set to Cruise and Pattern B set to Performance, so that Shift Mode Pattern A is used for Cruise Control & Shift Mode Pattern B is used for Performance Mode. However in this case its a little weird (ask GM why).

    For Shift Mode the "Normal" type is the last checked (or the default) so basically anything that doesn't select Pattern A/B, Hot, TUTD etc. will default to Normal. Now in this case when Pattern A is set to Normal i *guess* this would mean Pattern A Shift tables would be used all the time (instead of Normal tables) and then Pattern B used for Performance mode. BUT it could be that Pattern A is never used, i haven't checked it out.

    Trans -> Shift Properties, Pressure Pattern Select
    This chooses the Pressure Pattern (X/Y/Z) based on the current Shift Mode. This mostly controls just the base pressure.

    Trans -> Shift Properties, Pressure Pattern Mode
    This one selects either Normal or Special mode for the clutch control shift parameters. This is where the main shift quality differences are programmed. eg. Usually Normal will have longer shift times, lower pressures and Speical will be shorter/firmer shifts.
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@HPTuners View Post

    For Shift Mode the "Normal" type is the last checked (or the default) so basically anything that doesn't select Pattern A/B, Hot, TUTD etc. will default to Normal. Now in this case when Pattern A is set to Normal i *guess* this would mean Pattern A Shift tables would be used all the time (instead of Normal tables) and then Pattern B used for Performance mode. BUT it could be that Pattern A is never used, i haven't checked it out.
    I had this same question a few months back and verified that if Pattern A is set to Normal but has different values, the Normal mode will supercede Pattern A.

    Chris - Any update yet on the shifting issue that Bill said last week he would look into? In case you're not familiar with what I'm talking about, it's the issue that I (and several other people) have seen where the car will shift before the value set in the tune.

    Thanks,
    Christopher

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@HPTuners View Post
    guys, the logic behind the shift pattern selecting is like this:

    Trans -> Shift Properties, Shift Pattern Type
    - this controls how Shift Pattern A & B are selected for the Shift Mode. The newer cars use a CAN signal from the vehicle bus to send a message to the TCM. For the G8 it is set to Normal for Pattern A & Performance for Pattern B.

    historically Pattern A would be set to Cruise and Pattern B set to Performance, so that Shift Mode Pattern A is used for Cruise Control & Shift Mode Pattern B is used for Performance Mode. However in this case its a little weird (ask GM why).

    For Shift Mode the "Normal" type is the last checked (or the default) so basically anything that doesn't select Pattern A/B, Hot, TUTD etc. will default to Normal. Now in this case when Pattern A is set to Normal i *guess* this would mean Pattern A Shift tables would be used all the time (instead of Normal tables) and then Pattern B used for Performance mode. BUT it could be that Pattern A is never used, i haven't checked it out.
    What doesn't make sense to me here is that my G8 file reads different than you describe (bolded quote).

    My G8 reads (I attached my stock HPT file):
    Trans -> Shift Properties, Shift Pattern Type
    Pattern A reads 'pattn 1'
    Pattern B reads 'Normal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@HPTuners View Post
    Trans -> Shift Properties, Pressure Pattern Select
    This chooses the Pressure Pattern (X/Y/Z) based on the current Shift Mode. This mostly controls just the base pressure.

    Trans -> Shift Properties, Pressure Pattern Mode
    This one selects either Normal or Special mode for the clutch control shift parameters. This is where the main shift quality differences are programmed. eg. Usually Normal will have longer shift times, lower pressures and Speical will be shorter/firmer shifts.
    Then all this makes sense to me.
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  6. #86
    yeah its weird, i dunno why GM does this stuff! I understand why they would have a generic pattern capability so that various things can trigger differnt shift patterns, but it seems they threw any hint of a convention out the window at the same time

    In the past they always used A for Cruise and B for Perf/Tow. Now its all over the place and the definitions of things look like they were designed by an 8 year old...
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  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by thesubfloor View Post
    I had this same question a few months back and verified that if Pattern A is set to Normal but has different values, the Normal mode will supercede Pattern A.

    Chris - Any update yet on the shifting issue that Bill said last week he would look into? In case you're not familiar with what I'm talking about, it's the issue that I (and several other people) have seen where the car will shift before the value set in the tune.

    Thanks,
    Christopher
    haven't looked into the shifting issue yet, it could be some kind of offset table or parameter that adds or subtracts from the base shift speed.
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@HPTuners View Post
    haven't looked into the shifting issue yet, it could be some kind of offset table or parameter that adds or subtracts from the base shift speed.
    I hate to be a pest, but do you have even a rough ETA of when you will be able to?

    Christopher

  9. #89
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    o ya, i also wanted to ask again if you guys think there will be more T/M features in future releases with the A6s? i never heard any response on that. would be such a nice feature if you could adjust things based on percentage/timing retard like the old 4l60
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  10. #90
    there is no table unfortunately. The TCM communicates a desired torque to the PCM and it does the rest. it's formula based, no lookups
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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@HPTuners View Post
    there is no table unfortunately. The TCM communicates a desired torque to the PCM and it does the rest. it's formula based, no lookups
    I hate to bring up your competitors, but it apparently can be reduced by a percentage basis so is there any reason you guys can't do the same?

    Christopher

  12. #92
    show me the table and i'll add it. last time i checked we had quite a few more tables for the A6 than others.
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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@HPTuners View Post
    show me the table and i'll add it. last time i checked we had quite a few more tables for the A6 than others.
    I had quite a lengthy conversation one day with the guy from VM and according to what he told me, you guys are only accessing a small portion of the available tables in the TCM which is why they're able to reduce TM rather than have it be an all or nothing thing.

    I'd love to tell you what those tables were but as you can imagine the guy wasn't about to divulge any trade secrets so I don't have any specifics for you to work with. I think the point I'm trying to make is that if they can do it, is there any reason you guys couldn't also?

    There's also a tuner who uses both EFILive and HPT together to tune his cars and for the same reason - even EFILive is able to access TCM values that you guys can't so VM isn't the only other company doing this.

    While you may be correct in your statement about being able to access "more" tables than the other companies but it might just be that you're not accessing the most important ones (such as those needed to reduce TM rather than just turn it off).

    Christopher

  14. #94
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    I had quite a lengthy conversation one day with the guy from VM and according to what he told me, you guys are only accessing a small portion of the available tables in the TCM which is why they're able to reduce TM rather than have it be an all or nothing thing.

    I'd love to tell you what those tables were but as you can imagine the guy wasn't about to divulge any trade secrets so I don't have any specifics for you to work with. I think the point I'm trying to make is that if they can do it, is there any reason you guys couldn't also?
    Vector is a tunershop & they are not a direct competitor of ours since they are not a tuning software company, whatever they do is unknown at this point.

    There's also a tuner who uses both EFILive and HPT together to tune his cars and for the same reason - even EFILive is able to access TCM values that you guys can't so VM isn't the only other company doing this.
    If they had additional tables we would've already added them, however the fact is they don't so there is no competitive advantage we are giving up, and in fact we have several hundred additional tables they do not.

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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk@VectorMotorsports View Post
    We also have unprecedented transmission support, far beyond the typical software available to the public. For example, we can vary toque management in 1% increments in any of the shift modes.
    This is what Vector Motorsports claims. ya, they use their on OS, but it would still be nice to do

    after comparing these two logs (my G8 log i made with T/M enabled vs. a G8 log with a vector tune), i had a guy with a vector PCM/TCM tune log some runs with HPT. no, T/M isn't turned off on his vector tune (they say they just slightly adjust it for most), but it doesn't drop as rapidly compared to mine. the second mine car hits the commanded shift timing goes in the negatives. the vector tune slowly drops. maybe there or other variables...i don't know. but there is definitely a difference at WOT commanded shifts.

    what do you guys think? maybe shift timings/speeds take in effect?

    would someone mind posting a WOT run with a stock G8? stock tune anyways...
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  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners View Post
    Vector is a tunershop & they are not a direct competitor of ours since they are not a tuning software company, whatever they do is unknown at this point.



    If they had additional tables we would've already added them, however the fact is they don't so there is no competitive advantage we are giving up, and in fact we have several hundred additional tables they do not.

    -Bill
    Whether they're a tuning shop, EFILive or just some guy hacking around in his garage, my point is the same - what we're talking about here is software that talks to hardware and if it can be done once (by whoever that happens to be) it means that it is possible to do.

    Given that by your own admission you guys don't fully understand all the new tables and parameters for the A6, could this just be something that they know how to do and you don't?

    I'm really not trying to beat you up over this as all I'm saying is that I don't believe your "It can't be done" to be a true statement.

    Christopher

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesubfloor View Post
    Whether they're a tuning shop, EFILive or just some guy hacking around in his garage, my point is the same - what we're talking about here is software that talks to hardware and if it can be done once (by whoever that happens to be) it means that it is possible to do.

    Given that by your own admission you guys don't fully understand all the new tables and parameters for the A6, could this just be something that they know how to do and you don't?

    I'm really not trying to beat you up over this as all I'm saying is that I don't believe your "It can't be done" to be a true statement.

    Christopher
    exactly, im not at all complaining about HPT or the support that follows at all. you guys do amazing work and have an absolutly wonderful program to offer to the public! and i appreciate it! just would love to see/help you guys move forward in the development on these new and what seems to be pretty complicated transsmissions
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  18. #98
    i'll look at it again...
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  19. #99
    ok after 5mins of looking i realized i already have these params mapped out (i'm sure they are the ones you are talking about). I JUST FORGOT TO ADD THEM during the last update!!! Hence, my confusion as to what you were talking about.

    Punch me in the arm at SEMA

    Adding them now...
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  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@HPTuners View Post
    ok after 5mins of looking i realized i already have these params mapped out (i'm sure they are the ones you are talking about). I JUST FORGOT TO ADD THEM during the last update!!! Hence, my confusion as to what you were talking about.

    Punch me in the arm at SEMA

    Adding them now...
    What exactly are you adding and when will a new build be available that includes them?