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Thread: New A6 Transmission parameters walkthrough

  1. #61
    Advanced Tuner johnh's Avatar
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    Bill can you confirm on the G8, that sport mode is Pattern A?

    I noticed some 1->2 shift mph settings on Normal Button, but also on D1 and D2. I am wondering if Sport Mode really uses D2 and Pattern A isn't used? My Pattern A was set to 36 mph, but log shows it going 1-2 right at 30 mph (set in Normal) every time...it does look like it tells the TCM to shift to 2nd, but it doesn't happen right away, it takes a long time (relatively speaking). It does look like it tries to complete the shift just under the RPM setting feels more like a target to me...my RPM were set 6100, every time it peaked 6000-6050.

    I'm going to do some testing to see what MPH it uses in Drive vs. Sport and I'll post up the results, but it may be a few days.

  2. #62
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    Honestly not sure, I'll need to ask our engineer and even he might not know, I'm pretty sure its not marked as sport mode in the code so in reality it could be any one of the alternate patterns.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners View Post
    Automating a process will get you close, that doesn't mean it will be perfect, its the same with every vehicle, the automation process simply scales it by the correct value, if the starting values weren't spot on, which believe it or not GM doesn't always calibrate for gears & tires the proper way, then your shifting might not be spot on.

    I don't know what, if anything, is wrong with the values. However, without you logging as many TCM pid's as possible along with RPM, mph & such to help myself & our engineers figure out what it is its impossible to tell what is wrong, if anything, & how to fix it, if theres anything we can find.

    -Bill
    Bill,

    I posted up my tune and two logs from tonight in this thread:

    http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20534

  4. #64
    Супер Модератор EC_Tune's Avatar
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    Christopher,
    Check out this spreadsheet HERE and see if your calcs are correct at WOT.
    Always Support Our Troops!

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by EC_Tune View Post
    Christopher,
    Check out this spreadsheet HERE and see if your calcs are correct at WOT.
    I just sent you an e-mail.

  6. #66
    Advanced Tuner johnh's Avatar
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    Ok figured out a few things.

    WOT shifting is a combination of Full Throttle shift Speed and Full Throttle RPM. They somehow work together. I have my MPH set at 32, the current gear changes to 2 at that speed but doesn't shift until later, meaning the 32 rpm level is lower than the actual shift point by at least 400 rpm. If I up it to say 34, then it will shift even later, actually later than the RPM in the table. I have my MPH set 32, rpm 6175 and it now shifts 6100-6250..just about right. The Part Throttle 100% cells really have no effect, I imagine at some point it decides a certain TPS% is FULL and uses those tables instead.

    Sport Mode does indeed use Pattern A at Full throttle. Not sure on the Part throttle, as I really didn't test it out there, but I imagine it does as well. Not sure what D1/D2 play as well but mine are set the same anyway. As long as it shifts where I want WOT the other shifts can stay where they are.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnh View Post
    Ok figured out a few things.

    WOT shifting is a combination of Full Throttle shift Speed and Full Throttle RPM. They somehow work together. I have my MPH set at 32, the current gear changes to 2 at that speed but doesn't shift until later, meaning the 32 rpm level is lower than the actual shift point by at least 400 rpm. If I up it to say 34, then it will shift even later, actually later than the RPM in the table. I have my MPH set 32, rpm 6175 and it now shifts 6100-6250..just about right. The Part Throttle 100% cells really have no effect, I imagine at some point it decides a certain TPS% is FULL and uses those tables instead.

    Sport Mode does indeed use Pattern A at Full throttle. Not sure on the Part throttle, as I really didn't test it out there, but I imagine it does as well. Not sure what D1/D2 play as well but mine are set the same anyway. As long as it shifts where I want WOT the other shifts can stay where they are.
    Although it's supposed to work that way, it's somewhat common knowledge (at least in my experience and amongst the various people I've talked to over the last 18 months) that the A6 seems to only shift based on MPH. I would be very surprised that if you went out right now and bumped up or dropped your shift RPM it will have absolutely no difference on when the car shifts.

    As an example, my WOT 1-2 shift RPM is set to 3700 yet the car doesn't shift until around 6900 RPM or even later. I was pulling my hair out one night trying to figure out why I couldn't change the shift points and while going through my logs I noticed that the only way the commanded shift would change was by changing the shift MPH. Changing the RPM values did absolutely nothing because I can put anything from 3700 all the way up to 7000 and the car still shifts only based on MPH.

    I hope the guys here can fix it because it makes it hard getting the most out of the car at the dragstrip.

    Christopher

  8. #68
    Advanced Tuner johnh's Avatar
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    I would be very surprised that if you went out right now and bumped up or dropped your shift RPM it will have absolutely no difference on when the car shifts.
    I think you meant surprised if the RPM change made a difference. Likely true, I got the actual shift rpm to change by playing with mph, not rpm. I tried to keep the rpm close to where I wanted it thinking that if they somehow worked together I'd want them close.

    But my acutal shift occurs closer to 38-40 mph, not 32-33 where its set at. The Current gear pid changes from 1-2 at 33-34 but the physical shift doesn't happen until later...

    And the shift point is different if I go from a stop--shifts higher, than if I nail it from say a 15 mph roll (where it usually downshifts to 1)

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnh View Post
    I think you meant surprised if the RPM change made a difference. Likely true, I got the actual shift rpm to change by playing with mph, not rpm. I tried to keep the rpm close to where I wanted it thinking that if they somehow worked together I'd want them close.

    But my acutal shift occurs closer to 38-40 mph, not 32-33 where its set at. The Current gear pid changes from 1-2 at 33-34 but the physical shift doesn't happen until later...

    And the shift point is different if I go from a stop--shifts higher, than if I nail it from say a 15 mph roll (where it usually downshifts to 1)
    Yes, you're correct - thanks for catching my grammatical error.

    I have a similar problem through all six gears. As an example the commanded vs. actual MPH for my 1-2 shift is 24 and 37 MPH.

  10. #70
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    Hey Christopher its Ken, long time no talk. Maybe you need to attack this in reverse, meaning try setting the entire row 1-2 shift (for all throttle positions) to say 30. Maybe do it one table at a time too to find out which table is actually the right one (meaning Pattern A,B,Hot), just to see if it obeys any of these columns. Just a thought.
    Last edited by ktoonsez; 10-16-2008 at 11:39 PM.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktoonsez View Post
    Hey Christopher its Ken, long time no talk. Maybe you need to attack this in reverse, meaning try setting the entire row 1-2 shift (for all throttle positions) to say 30. Maybe do it one table at a time too to find out which table is actually the right one (meaning Pattern A,B,Hot), just to see if it obeys any of these columns. Just a thought.
    Thanks for the suggestion but I have all my settings exactly the same so whether it's Pattern A, B etc. doesn't factor into the equation. Also, the problem I'm having is at WOT instead of at part throttle.

  12. #72
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    I was thinking with what I was saying you could see if any tables were being used. I think what your are going to have to do is redo your speedo calculations with a different ratio because obviously the number it is calulating are not correct. Maybe enter in the next highest gear (3.72) to see the effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by thesubfloor View Post
    Thanks for the suggestion but I have all my settings exactly the same so whether it's Pattern A, B etc. doesn't factor into the equation. Also, the problem I'm having is at WOT instead of at part throttle.
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktoonsez View Post
    I was thinking with what I was saying you could see if any tables were being used. I think what your are going to have to do is redo your speedo calculations with a different ratio because obviously the number it is calulating are not correct. Maybe enter in the next highest gear (3.72) to see the effects.
    Based on what I've seen while getting clocked by various roadside radar guns (the ones that tell you you're going too fast), I think that my speedo might be off by 1-2 mph (at most) when going approximately 60MPH. Even if the speedo is part of the problem, there's still the bigger issue of the car shifting gears before it hits the RPM value set in the tune.

    If my problem was something simple like the car was shifting at 26MPH instead of 24MPH then I agree with you that the speedo calculations would probably be the reason for that. What I'm experiencing however is a lot more severe because not only is the actual shift taking place at a much later MPH than what's in the tune, it's shifting before the RPM value.

    Since that's what's happening to my car at the track, it means that the premise of "The car needs to surpass a certain MPH and RPM value in order to shift gears" simply isn't true.

  14. #74
    Advanced Tuner johnh's Avatar
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    not only is the actual shift taking place at a much later MPH than what's in the tune, it's shifting before the RPM value.
    Well mine will shift before or after the RPM value, all depending on the MPH set in Full Throttle Speed table. If I lower it, it shifts before the RPM value, if I raise the MPH, it will happily shift at 6300, when rpm table says 6175. It would be interesting to set the rpm table to like 5000 and see.

  15. #75
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    Question

    When in VCM Editor under Shift Properties-Shift Pressure-Max Pressure i see a value of 276psi?

    But thats not the value. When i change it up or down or even back to 276psi thats not the value. Have checked this with comparison files.

    Can anyone tell me what the Max Pressure value is for a bone stock 2006 A6 trans is?
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  16. #76
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    Any Chance of adding more parms for TQ mgmt?

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnh View Post
    Bill can you confirm on the G8, that sport mode is Pattern A?
    Pattern A=Normal

    Pattern B=Performance
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  18. #78
    Advanced Tuner johnh's Avatar
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    Pattern A=Normal
    Pattern B=Performance
    I'm confused there is three sets of values: Normal, Pattern A and Pattern B?
    On my files Pattern B is all 0s for MPH--so I am guessing for the G8 no patternB it would seem Normal=Normal; Sport Mode=PatternA?

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners View Post
    Pattern A=Normal

    Pattern B=Performance
    lol that makes things a lot more confusing... are you sure that is right? the pattern B tables are almost all zeroed out on the stock file under the 'auto shift speed' tab.

    from my experience under 'shift properties':
    when i change line pressure patternt X which corresponds with 'normal' mode, my normal mode takes all the effects when driving.

    when i change line pressure pattern Y which corresponds with pattern A, my sport mode takes all the effects when driving. then i change line pressure pattern Z for TUTD.

    finally, shift pattern B uses line pressure pattern X which is 'normal'.

    same goes for 'desired shift times'. if i change the 'normal' parameters to shift faster, my normal mode takes the effects. if i change all of the 'special' parameters (which correspond to pressure pattern Y and Z and has an effect on pattern A and TUTD MAN) to shift faster, my sport and TUTD take all the effects.


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  20. #80
    Tuner boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnh View Post
    I'm confused there is three sets of values: Normal, Pattern A and Pattern B?
    On my files Pattern B is all 0s for MPH--so I am guessing for the G8 no patternB it would seem Normal=Normal; Sport Mode=PatternA?
    yes, i think it equals to this:

    Normal:
    'pressure pattern select' is 'normal shift' which is 'pattern X mode'
    'pressure pattern mode' is 'normal'.

    Sport/Performance Mode:
    'pressure pattern select' is 'pattern A shift' which is 'pattern Y mode'
    'pressure pattern mode' is 'special'.

    TUTD/Manual Mode:
    'pressure pattern select' is 'TUTD Man shift' which is 'pattern Z mode'
    'pressure pattern mode' is 'special'.
    Last edited by boomer; 10-20-2008 at 08:55 PM.
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