Originally Posted by bluessv
3170 is the later/current OS. Yes Holden calibrates this locally for the VE's though it originates in the US. Also used in G8. With all due respect to the guys at the Bend, cant imagine they have a lot of A6 expertise as the trans is only used in "one" car. May be wrong.
If the pressure increase fixes the flare, thats good, but it may be covering up another problem. Surprised they state it's normal. Have you tried other dealers?
Why you want to remove TM?Has anyone managed to remove the TQM (spark retard during shift) totally and at WOT in their A6 yet for all 3 upshifts? If so, please post log and explain how...
Cause i'm stuffed if I can find a way
In some circumstances I want the fastest shift possible, and pulling timing does slow the car down.Why you want to remove TM?
Horses for courses, but generally TM off results in longer shift times. Nice snappy shifts with TM on, longer with it off. Trans is very good at protecting itself from too much torque differential on shifts.
Under your shift properties, change your shift time to .21 sec in normal and special mode. Then to help a little more, go to Torque management and adjust the 2-3 shift to .5. This should help your shift a bunch. Then go back and change your base shift pressures back to stock to see if the flare comes back.
As I've played around I've found the shift time best at around .25 and the closer I got to .200 I found it to be too harsh but that might be a personal preference. As I'm still learning can you please explain to me what those changes will do; especially changing the Shift Torque Factor on the 2-3 shift??
Would just like to know the theory behind the changes before I apply them.
Cheers!!
This is exactly how my truck reacts and my TCM OS is identical to what you have posted. I have an '07 GMC Sierra Denali. The flare ups tend to happen most after running through 1st and 2nd quickly and then letting off at the shift to 3rd, but it will also do it randomly.
I don't have the latest beta so I can't change the same parameters as y'all yet, but would you mind looking at my tune file and see if the tranny settings and see if I'm on the right track?
I haven't made any changes since the new tables were released last May or June...work has had me really bogged down!
Thanks for all the time you guys are putting into this tranny! I would love to re-enable TM but still get good quick/firm shifts and no more damned flare ups on the 2-3!
Last edited by kenny c; 02-08-2009 at 10:01 PM. Reason: adding tune file
2019 F-150 3.5 EcoBoost 4x4
I've read on the forum that when you're trying to change the shift pressures you change the main pressure solenoid but also the individual shift solenoid for that specific shift. Keeping that in mind, to increase the pressure on a certain shift do you only need to change the "Base Shift Pressure Upshift" tables located in the Shift Properties section? Or is there a table to change the specific solenoids for a specific shift?
The question is prompted after reading a post by Bill in which he uses the scenario of increasing the water pressure in a kitchen by turning on the mains pressure tap, but getting a better result by turning on the kitchen sink tap.
Gee, hope that didn't just lose everyone....
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Also, does anyone have an opinion on "Disabling" the Adaptive Pressure on the upshift. I haven't confirmed it yet, but I think I'm getting a better 2-3 shift when it's off and I'm thinking it's because I've taken the guessing game out of it that the TCM would be playing. Any thoughts...
If anyone is out there who has a consistent problem with the A6 flaring on the 2-3 shift, have you considered bumping up the pressures on that shift? Most of the shifts run pressures considerably higher than the 2-3 shift. I have had endless issues with my A6 flaring every 2-3 change with the stock tune.
I've bumped up the pressures considerably but nothing over the top when compared to the other shifts. The flaring issue has basically disappeared except for one or two flares after about 5 minutes of driving; but only ever on light throttle. After that, it's all good! I've posted my tune so you can get an idea what I'm talking about. Feel free to give feedback about the pressures.
Also, does anyone know anything about the "Freeze Adapts" Enable/Disable function in the Trans Diagnostics section. It makes referal to freezing pressure adapts if an invalid torque signal is detected. Has anyone played with this or know exactly what it does? It's enabled in the stock tune.
Last edited by bluessv; 05-18-2009 at 07:11 AM.
From what I've read the adaptive pressures should learn what pressure is required for the oncoming and offgoing clutch to ensure good shift quality. The trans should detect a flare or tie up during a gear change and adapt the pressures accordingly. Turning this off means it just uses the standard pressures in the calibration and will not adapt if shifts aren't going right.
The freeze adapts as you have said is for the loss of the torque signal, like when the maf fails. Changing this will only have an affect if you are mafless.
VE Calais V 6.0L L98 V8 6L80E
That is probably the PAS Performance stuff if 1 > 2 quick then let off for cruise. This is a difficult scenario.
Late model A6 Bimmers have this indecision as well under similar circustances.
For example, rapid acceleration thru 1 and 2, then back off: are you backing off for a corner that you then want to be back on the gas for corner exit in 2nd still with plenty or rpm at the ready, or are you backing of to go into cruise? The TCM doesnt know.
A calibrators nightmare.Shift to 3rd or hold 2nd and look like a flare?
With no access to PAS, makes it hard to fine tune. No doubt in general it is tuned for freeway on ramps, so mostly 1 > 2 > 3 etc up to 70-80mph with the gas pedal well down.
That pretty much sums it up.That is probably the PAS Performance stuff if 1 > 2 quick then let off for cruise. This is a difficult scenario.
Late model A6 Bimmers have this indecision as well under similar circustances.
For example, rapid acceleration thru 1 and 2, then back off: are you backing off for a corner that you then want to be back on the gas for corner exit in 2nd still with plenty or rpm at the ready, or are you backing of to go into cruise? The TCM doesnt know.
A calibrators nightmare.
With no access to PAS, makes it hard to fine tune. No doubt in general it is tuned for freeway on ramps, so mostly 1 > 2 > 3 etc up to 70-80mph with the gas pedal well down.
So, would you be against bumping the pressure for the 2-3 shift like BlueSSV is mentioning?
2019 F-150 3.5 EcoBoost 4x4
Pressure clearly makes a difference in certain shift scenarios and BlueSSV is happy with the results, so worth a try.
It is worth logging commanded gear vs shift time & related torque levels/torque loss to identify whether it is a true flare (loooong shift time), or simply that the shift command is not occuring when expected.
This will also provide some feedback on how pressure is contributing to behavior: shift times shorter or longer, and how pressure adapt is "adapting" behavior over time.
While the 2-3 cals show lower pressure than 1-2, 3-4, really the pressure is dictated by clutch volume/area, and the need to operate a clutch to achieve a certain shift profile. So without going into actual clutch volumes/areas, this may be why GM sets the 2-3 differently: and it may be simply a theoretically correct number which is generated by a S/W tool for all we know.
You should also log turbine speed. If flare occurs you will see the turbine speed increase before it drops to the level of the next ratio. Logging calc. ratio also helps in determining when a shift starts and ends, and what happens during the shift.
VE Calais V 6.0L L98 V8 6L80E
Good point!
Took the opportunity to relook at this flare thing yesterday.
Medium throttle, 200-300Nm, 1 > 2 > 3 nice snappy shifts, 0.2s or less.
Medium throttle, 200-300Nm, 1 > 2, back off, commanded 2 > 3 change is delayed maybe 1sec. After delay, shift command is given, shift occurs in 0.2-0.3sec.
Trans clearly waiting to see whether it gets gassed again, or is now in cruise mode. Be nice if there was access to PAS options to fine tune PAS.
Light throttle, 100Nm, 1 > 2 > 3, shifts normal 0.2 - 0.3 sec.
FWIW.
Would either of you mind sharing your scanner config? I've set up some configs in the past that just didn't seem to work right. I've been using one that EC Tune put together for gen IV's and it works great, but it doesn't log any transmission parameters.Took the opportunity to relook at this flare thing yesterday.
Medium throttle, 200-300Nm, 1 > 2 > 3 nice snappy shifts, 0.2s or less.
Medium throttle, 200-300Nm, 1 > 2, back off, commanded 2 > 3 change is delayed maybe 1sec. After delay, shift command is given, shift occurs in 0.2-0.3sec.
Trans clearly waiting to see whether it gets gassed again, or is now in cruise mode. Be nice if there was access to PAS options to fine tune PAS.
Light throttle, 100Nm, 1 > 2 > 3, shifts normal 0.2 - 0.3 sec.
FWIW.
2019 F-150 3.5 EcoBoost 4x4
We log in car with a Dashdaq which sits on the dash and gives a full digital or analog readout, so we dont have to worry about PC's.
You need to look for GM parameters like:
Engine Steady State Calculated Torque
Transmission Commanded Gear
Transmission Last Shift Time
or similar naming.
Sorry dont have time at present to track down the exact ones you need in HPT.
Dont hesitate to check the help files too!
Enjoy!
We log in car with a Dashdaq which sits on the dash and gives a full digital or analog readout, so we dont have to worry about PC's.
You need to look for GM parameters like:
Engine Steady State Calculated Torque
Transmission Commanded Gear
Transmission Last Shift Time
or similar naming.
Sorry dont have time at present to track down the exact ones you need in HPT.
Dont hesitate to check the help files too!
Enjoy!
Thanks! I'll play with it tomorrow. I've made my own configs, but I usually either don't add enough data which results in a useless scan file, or I add too much and the scanner hangs up.
2019 F-150 3.5 EcoBoost 4x4
I've attached the config I use.
VE Calais V 6.0L L98 V8 6L80E
Reply With Quote