Anyone Else Getting Frustrated With Newbs?

[5_Liter_Eater]

Not that I am a pro tuner, work for HPT or even a moderator but I spend a good bit of time on the forums helping out where I can. I've noticed an increasing number of people popping up on the board lately who have clearly not done any due diligence, not read any stickies, haven't searched for information, or (what's really un-nerving) haven't tried ANYTHING and are looking for someone to spoon feed them a "mail order tune".

I guess I shouldn't let it bug me but we have maintained a very high level of help for people, the great support from the forums are even kind of a selling point for the software IMO. It just seems to be slipping because there are more and more posts that are of little value to no one.

<RANT OFF>

[MMGT1]

To anyone that may be a little un-nerved by Bill's post, I'll be the first to say that he has been a great help to MANY Corvette tuners, and had helped me with some stuff that was way over my head!(Which belive me isn't very hard) But yes, we all should probably search a little more before we post.

[ElecTech]

I think that it has a lot to do with HP's increase in market share, as well as, its ease of use. You start stepping out of the shops and hardcore hobbyists, and into the hands of the average Joe without any, or little, prior car knowledge. What the "Joe" fails to realize is that those on the forums and elsewhere that make it seem so easy have spent hundreds to thousands of hours reading, learning, testing, and tearing stuff up to get to that point.

It's kind of the sign of our time, really. People have fallen into the habit of instant gratification and lose the stomach to get there hands dirty and put in the time and hard work it takes to achieve a goal.

I agree, do a little research first. At least look at the HELP files!

[Billf6531]

I'll chime in here. I don't mind helping someone that posts a specific question when he/she is stuck in using the editor or scanner, or resolving a specific tuning issue. It's usually clear that they've at least used the Help files, read the 'stickies', and used the Search function.

Posts like: 'I just got HPT. Can someone tell me what to do/change?' are annoying, especially when they don't even bother to mention what vehicle they're enquiring about or provide any detail on their mods.

People like that are 'sparrows'. Ever see a mother bird feed her new hatchlings?

[5_Liter_Eater]

Yea, it's the spoon feeders I'm referencing for the most part. Reminds me of that Simpson's episode where young Ned Flanders was acting up and his beatnik parents were at the psycologist saying, "You gotta help us Doc, we've tried nothin' and it's not workin'".

[Bill@HPTuners]

I think that it has a lot to do with HP's increase in market share, as well as, its ease of use. You start stepping out of the shops and hardcore hobbyists, and into the hands of the average Joe without any, or little, prior car knowledge. What the "Joe" fails to realize is that those on the forums and elsewhere that make it seem so easy have spent hundreds to thousands of hours reading, learning, testing, and tearing stuff up to get to that point.

It's kind of the sign of our time, really. People have fallen into the habit of instant gratification and lose the stomach to get there hands dirty and put in the time and hard work it takes to achieve a goal.

I agree, do a little research first. At least look at the HELP files!

I think this about sums it up, but I've seen alot of well seasoned tuners overlook the help files, stickies, etc. as well so its not always the avg joe.

I just try and put as many helpful stickies up and hope & pray they get read and if not at least they can be referenced very easily whether for email help or help on the forum itself. I even put a sticky that says read the stickies

Most of the time I bite my tongue knowing there have been many instances where I ask a question and then within 10 seconds of searching I've already found the answer for myself before the person I asked got back to their pc to answer it read as ken, chris & keith

[gman4dx266]

Yeah i have noticed a few posts lately, where for example someone would be like 'how do i disable LTFT's' and someone would say 'under fuel control' and they'd be like 'wheres that?' and we'd be like 'under Engine>Fuel Control'.

"Spoon-feeding a mail order tune" is *exactly* what is going on. They basically want you to tell them ALL the settings and/or changes they need to make, and poof it's magically done. They need to realize that the HPT package is a custom, do-it-**YOURSELF** operation. I understand asking for help...Hell, Im on here quite a bit. Perhaps some of my questions fall into the 'wtf, he doesnt know that?' category, but I've atleast put a legitimate effort toward finding the answer by at a minimum, using the search feature and, if its not raining out [lol @ traction], trying what I THINK it might be, and then ultimately ask if i dont get anywhere.

Good gosh, look at what you did 5 Liter Eater...you got me started too! :-)

[mcfarlnd]

when i got my hp tuners my buddy went through and changed all the stuff for me and i wish he hadn't .i may have been one of those guys and i appreciate the help alot. there is a large learning curve and some might not catch on quickly. im not taking up for anyone but, if you dont like the post then dont read it nor answer it. if they cant learn to atleast know the tabs and where the help file is then let em learn on there own (theyll prolly learn more). dont help someone that isnt helping themselves. its yalls choice. if i post something dumb up let me know

[gman4dx266]

Basically what he's [5Liter] saying is, the old addage, just modified:

"God helps those who help themselves"

[EC_Tune]

Once in a while I'll completely ignore a "what do I do first" thread because they will get the hint if no one responds. Stickies are there for a reason and they get ignored. I know the site can be intimidating and searches may or may not give you what you want unless you know what to ask but that is part and parcel of an open forum like this. It can't be neatly organized because more and more is added every minute of every day.

Bill (5LE) has been a great asset to the forum and I can understand the noob frustration. But then again I've been a noob too. I try to remember that as I'm feeling frustrated by an inane question that has been answered 1000+ times.

Heheh Maybe we need a filter on the posts for "what do I do first" and have an auto response point to the stickies and lock the thread. After 2 weeks it gets deleted permanently...

[Cantalope Kid]

I have to say I came here looking for a guide to tuning myself. I realized quickly that a few have undertaken the idea of making their own. Some have gone completely professional and cashed in on the noobs (Greg Banish and TheTuningSchool.com). Smart in my opinion.

I myself tried to read all the stickies, self made manuals, and always use search first...then I go straight for the jugular...I put up a thread and honestly wait for to name a few...EC_Tune, Bill@HPTuners, Billyblue and 5_Liter_Eater to respond before I take anything to heart. I had considered entertaining the idea of paying EC_Tune $ on a monthly basis to answer my WTF is next Q's at one point. Instead I literally have a cookie jar at home collecting $50/pay check so I can get the at home kit from TheTuningSchool.com. It comes with support for 1 yr. and the manual is supposed to be highly structured. Yes I am SOLD and it will be months before I can purchase it but its worth the sacrafice for the value in my opinion. If you think about it they have made a market out of the lack of support HP Tuners can offer due to liability reasons. Nothing wrong with that..makes sense for both parties if you ask me. Everyone has to start somewhere...Keep them turned onto this amazing product guys. Answer or re-direct members if you can...it means so much to us newbies! Thanks in advance for help on my next DUH moment as well...

[MeentSS02]

I have no constructive comments, but I enjoyed reading this thread none-the-less. Banter away fellas...banter away.

[kevmar]

thanks for the help bill 5Leater, I'm taking the class in dallas hope it helps ahhaa

[always last]

It's kind of the sign of our time, really. People have fallen into the habit of instant gratification and lose the stomach to get there hands dirty and put in the time and hard work it takes to achieve a goal.

Above is a very true statement and I think a lot of the problem.

I think I can put some light on this for ya, being new myself. I built a motor for my pickup. Now it needs to be tuned. I looked at getting it tuned by Nelson (Great company). But thought, every change I make I have to get it tuned again, again and again, and I do plan on making some changes.

I started looking at tuners. I did a lot of research, including support. You have to admit HP has a great support system. That was one of the deciding factors for me.

I buy the HP Pro. Hook it up and read my first VCM. I be leave my reaction was holly sh_t what did I get myself into now. The first look is very intimidating and you start to realize why the setup was $650.00 bucks, very impressive. (This is not your little hand held)

Now with that said.
Read your VCM and leave it alone and start researching. Use the VCM file to move around in as you read. This will help you under stand where things are.
Read the sticky ever time you see one, Very helpful.
Read the help file there very good when your starting out.
Under search use the advance search.
Go to other forums and read. There's a lot of good information out there on different ways to tune.
When you think you have a good understanding, go tune. When you finish you'll have questions. The answer is already here, so SEARCH before you ask. Be leave me I've asked some stupid questions, when the answer was right in front of me.
Actually I think I still hold 1st prize. lol

You bought a tuner not a tutor.

[Scattered]

I'm a newby to this myself, and i have to agree with what has been said. There are some of us here (okay, a lot of us) that are a complete PITA. I spend most of my time on here reading and i have got a lot of my questions answered by those "tell me what to do" treads started by newbs. As much as i try sometimes i just don't understand, or just can't find that one little piece of information i need.

Overall i am very impressed with the patience and will to help on this forum

Thanks for the help

[Mep_q8]

I try my best to read up on all the stickies and previous posts... the SEARCH function when used proper is amazing!! There is sooooo much information on there its great.

Another thing i've done is bought 2 books on tuning... I've made many a posts when I first bought HPT's, but as said before, god helps those who help themselves...

Ppl who are asking to be spoon fed normally just tune one or two cars, when tuning turns into a hobby, it's better to understand the program at hand then to just copy someone elses advice...

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

I agree. It gets a little old seeing some people take time to type a long winded post when it would have taken less time and effort to search for it.

Unfortunately, this is typical for just about anything in this generation. I usually end up searching, not finding anything, posting a question, and then finding something right after I post lol

Some of these things may be real simple to those of us that have been doing this for several years, but may be difficult for those who just got the software. That is when you have to think back to the questions you asked when you first started, I asked plenty of dumb ones, but that is how you learn. The ones that say things along the lines of "give me something to make my car faster so I don't have to do anything" get old.

[5_Liter_Eater]

OK, maybe I was just having a bad day before because now I feel like a jackass for starting this thread. I just need to learn to filter out the spoon feeders and I'll be happy. I don't mind helping out extreme newbs. I don't expect for everyone to have a firm grasp on things when they first start out. It's very daunting at first and the learning curve is exponential. It's still a very nice place to hang out, get help and help others.

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

It's alright, we knew what you meant

[EC_Tune]

Sometimes a good rant is cathartic... Just don't do it again
Now get back to helping these newbs!
Kidding of course!!!