V6 VE Tuning Test

[90 Regal GS]

Chris let us know how that file johnh has is set up.

[bilemke]

I would be curious to experiment with these switches in the calibration as well.

[IndeedSS]

I thought it was odd that the shop/person that WB tuned my car after the cam install, said out of all of the 3.8l he's tuned my car was the only one that VE tuning made any difference on. Depending on the the information here, perhaps it's not that odd.

[johnh]

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15760

Its in that thread...I'd upload it here, but its on the laptop.

Thanks,

[HD RACING]

John you saved me from going out in the cold.


I remember my car when I added the GenV and Northstar to the already modified platform and I had a heck of a time idling and had very bad transition in the throttle response. Once I did Jerry's recommended VE tune it made all the difference in the world. My switch must be on?


This is my first post here but I have been reading ever since our former vendor left us out to dry

[99BLACKGT]

i was under the impresion that the HP tuner guys did a full decompile of the PCM's OS when you first start with a new vehicle.

If this is true, then your engineers could tell you exactly where and how the VE table comes in to play.

But i may be wrong on what i have heard.

I love to hear more about these VE tables tho. And any information on the switching system that enables them. Those two tables mentioned above where SD is an option would be great to have. But also, if it is based on a delta of TPS or MAF delta. Then it would be nice to alter those tables as well.

[devildog9999]

Good Discussion folks! Keep it going!

[Bill@HPTuners]

Just zero'd out mine, and all it does is stall, while trying to get an idle. I was able to keep it running, but it was a bitch to make it even around the block. I will play more after work and send up a scan.

Check to see if your throwing any codes I'd like to test something else.

[devildog9999]

Nothing popped up Bill.

[Bill@HPTuners]

Nothing popped up Bill.

even when it stalls your not throwing any dtc's that can be scanned with the scanner? For instance I threw a p0101 code the other day & it didn't pop the ses light, but did show in the dtc window in the scanner once I polled for it.

[99BLACKGT]

do you guys have any information on weather the VE table is used based on a delta factor of the maf or tps?

Or if you guys really do a true decompile on the pcm

[Onyx Dragon]

First off, the effort was appreciated, but it takes a lot longer than 10 minutes for the trims to be relearned even under the most optimistic circumstances. On average it is not unreasonable to do 1-2 driving cycles of 15-30 min with at least 1 (preferably 2) engine restarts in between to make sure that the trims are learned.

A VE tune is not the end all of everything, but it is the base from which the rest of the tune is built on. After doing as complete a tune with and without VE adjustments, on my car (and all the cars I have followed the same process with) the difference is clearly different in terms of final results.

Doing a VE by itself will not do very much... using it as part of a complete process gives superior results to not using it. This is not just me, but hundreds of other tuners that came back and confirmed the very same thing.

A very important factor is number of mods. A stock or near stock car will show very little end result improvements. A well modified car will show clearly superior differences in terms of final results. Most obvious results occur on cars with sub 3.4 pulleys and aggressive aftermarket cams like the XPZ, S1(2 or 3) and XP. The VS cam is so close to stock that it does make a difference, however it is not as clearly visible as on other cams.

Now... unless the PT is modifying some other table or doing things in some other way (highly unlikely), the benefits should be the same if done (properly) with the HPT.

I am not saying that a VE tune is going to give you 50HP more in the end... I am saying that on my car mileage rose as high as 4 MPG, the car was smoother feeling and sounding... I am saying that the trims locked in over a far greater temperature and humidity range than a tune without it. I did not have to retune the MAF when temperature dropped 20 degrees and trims no longer locked in at 0 becuase they consistantly locked in over a broader range of conditions. The stability of the tune seems so much less volatile with it than without it.

Keeping in mind you can reset the fuel trims automatically with the HP tuner at the click of a button. In which case, you'll see the new trims right away.

BTW, do you have a VS cam? I'm contemplating a cam.

[Eddie-98GTP]

<off topic>
XP FTW! Jerry also has an XP (but I guess I should let himtell you )
</off topic>


It seems different OS's use the VE table different ways. On my 98 GTP I can't tell a big difference, but I can tell a little bit. When I zero'd out the VE table (I know this is a drastic change), the engine had a slight idle surge, other than that I couldn;t tell anything was different but I ony drove the car for about 20 miles this way. Others see a huge difference with a tuned VE table vs stock. My way of thinking is it can't hurt, and if you have a MAF failure your car will run better then if the VE table as stock.

[JerryH]

BTW, do you have a VS cam? I'm contemplating a cam.

Nope, the VS cam is a touch above a stock cam. I have the XP cam (like Eddie mentioned). The XP cam is the most aggressive cam you can use on stock heads, its right at the limit. Anything more aggressive and you need some special head work.

...oh, and the HPT cannot do fuel trim resets on the fly? Thats an extreme time saver... with it you can do up to 10 VE and 10 MAF tunes in a day. WIthout it... MAYBE 1-2 tunes and thats it.. day is over. Time for someone to add that to the request list, its a valuable button for sure! (well we could go back to the old unplug the PCM for 30 minutes thing... but damn!)

[bilemke]

See your request thread regarding LTFT reset Jerry.

[JerryH]

Who was that masked man!

[IndeedSS]

...oh, and the HPT cannot do fuel trim resets on the fly? Thats an extreme time saver... with it you can do up to 10 VE and 10 MAF tunes in a day. WIthout it... MAYBE 1-2 tunes and thats it.. day is over. Time for someone to add that to the request list, its a valuable button for sure! (well we could go back to the old unplug the PCM for 30 minutes thing... but damn!)

It can reset the fuel trims via the VCM controls in the scanner.

[devildog9999]

It has been here for a long time...

[Eddie-98GTP]

Man that's cool!

[IndeedSS]

It has been here for a long time...

Yea that's it.

Happy Holidays Gary!

Lee