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Thread: ECT - IAT Bias table

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    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    ECT - IAT Bias table

    I keep seeing tons of people have problems / questions with the air temp bias tables. The bias is a very important part of making a open loop SD cars tune right at different air temps. But for the most part I think people are beating them selves to death with it. So here is my two cents on the topic. Maybe a dime.

    First off, I want to say that I am probably the biggest fan of GM's method for handling air temp. It's been around a long time, since the late 80's for the most part. Once you learn how and why it works, you realize how powerful the simple little table is.

    I actually hate tuning cars with aftermarket computers because they usually use a % fuel multiplier table for ECT and another IAT. Its just not as simple as adding for example 30% more fuel when the engine is at 10 DegC because a cold engines enrichment needs are different at idle than at WOT. The GM model handles this so much better and at least back in the day when code and table size was a big deal, it didn't take up any more space than the simple % model. It was genius. After you see how it works, you wonder how aftermarket computers, other manufactures, and things like TBI trucks with no IAT sensors do as good as they go. (Actually they don't, thank God for the manufacturers crutch, the narrow band o2)

    I know this has been explained several times on this board, but I’m going to do it again. The idea behind the table is that at low airflows, the incoming air has lots of time to heat up (or soak up) to the temp of the engine/intake that it is flowing through. At higher airflows the air gets through the intake and head fast enough that it doesn’t change much from when it went by the IAT sensor. So in theory with no air flow (0 g/sec) the air in the intake port would have an infinite amount of time to soak and would be the exact same temp as the ECT. On the other side, at infinite airflow (¥ g/sec) the air in the intake port would be the exact same as the IAT. What we are concerned with is every thing in between.

    GM’s implementation of this is to assign a number that represents how much to lean either towards the ECT or IAT. A value of 1.0 representing 100% ECT, a value of 0.0 representing 100% IAT. Any number in between representing a blend of the two temps.

    So lets say we have a warmed up engine. The ECT reads 100DegC and the IAT reads 20DegC. If the value in the bias table was 1.0 the estimated air temp used for fueling calculations would be 100DegC. If the value in the bias table was 0.0 the estimated air temp would be 20DegC. If the value in the bias table was 0.5 the estimated air temp would be 60DegC (Half way between 20 and 100).

    Now you should understand what the numbers represent and why they need to be different at the different air flows. Now lets talk about how to setup a table and tune it.

    I always start my table, as mentioned above, with a value of 1.0 @ 0 G/sec. It doesn’t really matter if you do this since there is never a point where a running engine can be ingesting zero air, but it makes the table take its natural shape and aids in looking at it visually. GM used to also take this approach, as many early 90’s calibrations also start with a 1.0. I haven’t seen a modern calibration do this, but I also think the factory numbers in these tables are junk. I think most all of the SD numbers in a MAF cars tune are half assed because GM relies so heavily on the MAF and O2’s.

    Here is what I usually use as a starting point on a LS1 car. Starting at 1.0 and usually swooping down to a 0.200 – 0.150 towards the higher airflows. Also in the picture is a slightly increased filter table so that the temp can change a little faster than stock.



    So lets do some examples of what is happening with the test data.



    In the picture above you can see how the table effects calculated air temp in 3 engine conditions (idle to WOT) for 4 different temperature states (Cold to Hot). The effect on fueling is obviously Colder air = More fuel, Warmer air = Less fuel. In the past GM not only had a bias table for calculating the temp, but also a table that said how to change the fuel for each given temp. These tables don’t show up in the ls1 and later tunes. I’ve always assumed its because the table no longer exists, and the estimated air temp is just used for air density in a hard coded mathematical calculation as opposed to being looked up in a table. Anyway, don’t be too concerned on how temp directly effects the fueling, just understand cold = more, hot = less.

    So lets look at the numbers. Since full operating temp is what we consider the “natural state”, we will make all comparisons from the “Warmed up Engine” data. Comparing the warm engine to the cold engine, you can see that there is a greater difference in the est. air temp at Idle than at WOT. (68 to 12) vs (28 to 12). This means the cold engine will get more fuel correction at idle than it will at WOT.



    If you’ll look at this example you can see how different IAT temps at the same ECT effect the est. air temp. The IAT effects both, but makes a bigger change at WOT than it does at idle. (21 to 49) vs (66 to 76).

    This may seem like mute points, but that’s how a real engine behaves. And a simple % correction vs ECT and another for IAT just doesn’t properly model the engine. To get the proper enrichment at idle on a cold engine, you would have to over fuel it at WOT. Same goes for the warm engine model vs IAT, to get the right amount of fuel at WOT you would have to over correct at Idle. Understanding why we need the bias table probably won’t help you tune it, but I just want you guys to know why we really need it and that its actually worth the trouble.

    So how do we tune it? That’s as broad as it is long. I know Carneb has been working with tuning the bias at the same time as the VE. I haven’t looked at his implementation of it, but I understand what a undertaking it is from my attempts at similar stuff back with the older computers. Since a change in the Bias affects the VE, then intern affects the Bias again, it’s a recursive idea that gives me nose bleeds. I usually try to simplify it by changing the Bias, then just retuning the VE to accommodate the bias table. See how close it was and make changes again to the bias. It causes a lot of “Starting over” with the VE table, but I keep my sanity. Plus I get to benefit from experience, so I don’t usually start with the Bias table to far off.

    Main thing to remember is that if at a certain air flow the PCM is over correcting with the IAT (Gets richer when its cold, leaner when its warm), make the bias bigger. If the PCM is under correcting (Gets lean when its cold, and rich when its warm), make the bias number smaller. Don’t think of it as cold/warm or rich/lean because your always going to have to redial in the VE. Remember that since the ECT is pretty stable and constant on a warmed up engine, biasing towards ECT (1.00) will make the IAT less aggressive (Less IAT correction) and making the number smaller will increase the IAT’s authority and make IAT correction stronger.

    Now for the kicker. (this is where I’m going to piss people off) I see everyone tore up because their cruise AFR is 14.6 in the morning and 14.8 in the evening. The Bias table is very powerful and is where corrections for problems like that are to be made. But… if stuff like that bothers you, you need to give up on open loop and turn your freaking O2’s back on. We simply don’t have to amount of sensors or PCM complexity to make it perfect for every condition, all the time. The PCM can do tons of estimation for intake valve temp and a 1000 other things, but the information provided to it from a ECT and IAT just isn’t enough to make it a right as some of you would like it to be.

    Building a good VE and bias table takes hours and hours of logging, and you really need logs that span months so you can see extreme cold and warm weather. But even with the greatest amount of love, if your summer average numbers are within .5 AFR of you winter average numbers, you’ve made an awesome tune! Don’t beat yourself up trying to make it 100% right 100% of the time, it won’t happen.
    Last edited by Bluecat; 11-08-2007 at 10:13 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    Very good reading! Thanks very much. I have typically stayed away from the bias tables because I didn't have a good method to tune them with. I believe Marcin is working on some sort of spreadsheet to help with that. I'm not one of those guys who wants it spot on at all times under all conditions but I am interested in getting the stock tables more realistic.

    Just took a look at my bias table (which is stock) and it has multiple rows for different MPH which could really mess with your head; IE: the faster you go the more air is flowing through the engine bay so heatsoak is lessened. The stock values are all the same for the different speeds though so GM apparently has not taken a stab at trying to calculate this just yet. What's weird is that for all speeds the table starts at .26 a 0 g/s and draws a straight line to .05 at 128 g/s. I may try plugging in a more inverse exponential curve like yours.

    Last edited by 5_Liter_Eater; 11-08-2007 at 09:46 AM.
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    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    I forget which car it is, but I think the GTO's with the ram air hoods actually have different numbers in the bias table for the different speeds.

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    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    What are your thoughts on the bias filter (the rate at which the temperature moves to the new bias temperature)?
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    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    I don't think its that bad from the factory. I just think it probally slows the changes down a little more than it needs to. I think I seen were someone claiming it to make a big difference in throttle respone on a TBSS or somthing, but I think it probally has more to do with the SD tune being off and the changing of the numbers was more of crutch.

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    Excellent article Bluecat! I am a firm believer of not attempting to get the tune exactly right (within .00001%) for every weather condition. I just aim for a realistic variation, typically around 1%-3% or no more then the tolerance of the test equipment I am using (.1%).

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    geez, i apparently need to pimp my blog better

    http://redhardsupra.blogspot.com/200...-modeling.html

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    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    I’ve looked through your blog a few times. Is it an exercise of trying to duplicate the pcm’s means of estimating the MAT? It’s always a plus to verify that the computer is actually doing what you think it is and it looks like you did a good job of taking in the bias table, lag filters, ECT, & IAT to calculate the same MAT that the computer does.

    What I don’t understand is how or why your taking the data and trying to dial in the bias and filter tables. I just don’t see how you can take the tables and calibrate them with the data that they generated in the first place. If you actually stuck some sort of fast reacting temp sensor in the end of the intake port for a real world reading, then your means of calibrating the tables would be awesome. But I still don’t understand how you can use MATscan to calibrate the tables since it’s the imaginary reading that the tables generated in the first place.

    I still haven’t had time to just sit down and read the whole thing at once. Maybe I can find time to check it out better tonight and maybe see what I am missing.

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    So, if your tune is perfect on a 100º day, and the trims go positive on a 60º day, your probably lean to start with but heve too little IAT bias, so when it get's hot your not leaning enough and you go richer?

    How would one without a VE table go about adjusting for this?

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    The autronic aftermarket ecu has a charge air temp calculation - just for reference. You really need to get this table correct to properly calibrate the fueling requirements. Luckily GM has most probably spent hours on it so it should be at least 80% correct.

    Like bluecat has suggested this is a table that takes months to tune correctly and you seriously will send yourself mad. Surely someone can come up with a multi dimensional table that can calculate the changes that need to be made based on the state varibles - RPM, MAP, IAT, ECT with input being a wideband 02 sensor and the output being the change in VE at that point along with the required changes in the bias tables.

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    Advanced Tuner TiredGXP's Avatar
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    Well, I was feeding data to RHS in the development of his spreadsheet. I believe that the default data, bias and filter data in the spreadsheet he posted were for my LS4. I had done a fair amount of smoothing of the Bias numbers arrived at in the spreadsheet, so I still have a nearly stock bias table, the filter values are as per the spreadsheet

    In an effort to see what happens with AFR error with changes in temperature, I created a histogram that plots AFR error against ECT and IAT. The first attached histogram is in closed loop, IAT varied by 21*C (38*F); ECT varied by 22*C (40*F) and AFR error was pretty flat across the range. The vehicle was started in a heated, underground parkade (22*C) then driven around where ambient temperature was about -3*C.

    The second attached histogram is in open loop, from about a month earlier than the first histo, this was a much warmer day, stuck in traffic with a heat soaked IAT sensor, again with IAT variations of 22*C. AFR error was again fairly consistent across the range.

    Attachment 9298 Attachment 9299

    Rob82 has a good point about the existing table being 80% there, I made relatively small changes to the Bias and Filter values, and have relatively consistent AFR errors between 2*C and 41*C. I expect that going to CL has probably made things even more consistent.

    2005 Grand Prix GXP - 5.3 LS4 - HP Tuned, MF catback, 1.8 rockers, K&N, Some day I'll finish putting the LS6 intake on

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    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    If your tune is good on a warm day, but leans out (ftrims go +) on a cool day - then the computer is under compensating for temperature and you need to make your bias numbers smaller. But doing so will not only cause it to add more fuel at the cooler temp, but its still going to add a little fuel at the warmer temp (which was already right) causing a need for the VE numbers themselves to be decreased some due to the changes made in the bias table.

    Which intern won't make the change for the colder temp enough after jacking with the VE, so you'll need even less bias than you oringal would have though combined with less VE. Then the lower VE Numbers will cause the calced airflow to be different which moves you around to a different part of the bias table and further complicates it.

    Basically it all needs to be solved at once, in some big simultaneous equation with a data pool combined from lots big logs taken from a wide variance of enviromental conditions. I don't have any trouble with the steps or logic, but doing it at once in a simultaneous equation with as many variables that are present gives me a headache and makes me sleepy.

    Not to mention every other part of the tune needs to be dead on before you get here, because if things like injector offsets and such arn't spot on, then a 5% change may not be a 5% change in the real world. Then your just chasing your tail trying to solve back for the variables.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TiredGXP
    In an effort to see what happens with AFR error with changes in temperature, I created a histogram that plots AFR error against ECT and IAT.
    this is a good idea, however you also need to take airflow into account, as that determines the bias value, so you need to graph it with a higher number of dimensions.

    also, when you're trying to attribute changes to airflow, you want to do it in open loop, close loop just muddies up the picture.
    if you have any new logs in OL that would have things like heatsoaking in traffic or something, please send them to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluecat
    If your tune is good on a warm day, but leans out (ftrims go +) on a cool day - then the computer is under compensating for temperature and you need to make your bias numbers smaller. But doing so will not only cause it to add more fuel at the cooler temp, but its still going to add a little fuel at the warmer temp (which was already right) causing a need for the VE numbers themselves to be decreased some due to the changes made in the bias table.

    Which intern won't make the change for the colder temp enough after jacking with the VE, so you'll need even less bias than you oringal would have though combined with less VE. Then the lower VE Numbers will cause the calced airflow to be different which moves you around to a different part of the bias table and further complicates it.

    Basically it all needs to be solved at once, in some big simultaneous equation with a data pool combined from lots big logs taken from a wide variance of enviromental conditions. I don't have any trouble with the steps or logic, but doing it at once in a simultaneous equation with as many variables that are present gives me a headache and makes me sleepy.

    Not to mention every other part of the tune needs to be dead on before you get here, because if things like injector offsets and such arn't spot on, then a 5% change may not be a 5% change in the real world. Then your just chasing your tail trying to solve back for the variables.
    you got it 100%!

    proper attribution is key. right now we dont know if AFR%error comes from accounting for temps incorrectly, is it an actual change in breathing characteristics, or it's the injectors not dumping exactly as much as they're told. the traditional method of just following AFR% error automatically attributes ALL fueling errors to the VE table, which is just not true, and while VE table is a good table to be the 'fudge factor' for some things, it's not good for others (like temps or injector issues).

    and yes, it does have to be done all at the same time. that's why i've been stuck on this for months, despite having all the pieces (well, the injectors arent there 100% yet, so currently i can do it only on stock injectors).

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    Advanced Tuner TiredGXP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluecat
    If your tune is good on a warm day, but leans out (ftrims go +) on a cool day - then the computer is under compensating for temperature and you need to make your bias numbers smaller. But doing so will not only cause it to add more fuel at the cooler temp, but its still going to add a little fuel at the warmer temp (which was already right) causing a need for the VE numbers themselves to be decreased some due to the changes made in the bias table.

    Which intern won't make the change for the colder temp enough after jacking with the VE, so you'll need even less bias than you oringal would have though combined with less VE. Then the lower VE Numbers will cause the calced airflow to be different which moves you around to a different part of the bias table and further complicates it.

    Basically it all needs to be solved at once, in some big simultaneous equation with a data pool combined from lots big logs taken from a wide variance of enviromental conditions. I don't have any trouble with the steps or logic, but doing it at once in a simultaneous equation with as many variables that are present gives me a headache and makes me sleepy.

    Not to mention every other part of the tune needs to be dead on before you get here, because if things like injector offsets and such arn't spot on, then a 5% change may not be a 5% change in the real world. Then your just chasing your tail trying to solve back for the variables.
    I think I agree with everything you said and would love to see a model that would work, and that I could understand. At the risk of getting flamed, I'm going to play devils advocate.

    Given the limitations of tuning and testing equipment that most of us have, I don't believe that it is possible to get all (or even most) components of a tune dead on. In reality aren't we all dealing with a number of "wrong" parameters that result in an acceptable result for throttle response, power, torque, fuel economy....

    What do we really know about the actual amount of fuel and air used by an engine? Unless the fuel injectors are perfectly flow matched and we have reliable data regarding the effect of vacuum, voltage, temperature, fuel pressure on the flow rate, we're just guessing about the fuel delivered to the engine. I'm pretty sure that GM didn't flow match the injectors in each vehicle and just used "average" values in developing the stock parameters in each tune. Then there's the whole issue of the ability of intake manifolds and cylinder heads to deliver equal amounts of air to each cylinder across the entire RPM range.

    So, depending on the engine and sensor configuration, we're essentially relying on the stated injector flow rates and estimating VE and/or airmass that result in a measured AFR that matches commanded AFR on the average airflow from 3,4,6 or 8 cylinders, as measured by either a WB or NB (the accuracy of either may be suspect in a production vs laboratory grade piece of equipment). OK, I can live with that, because I really have no other choice based on the $ I'm willing to spend.

    I'm wondering if the way that VE is presented and used isn't fundamentally flawed - does it make sense to record VE against MAP and RPM or would it make more sense to chart it against Cylinder Charge(g/cyl), or some other airmass parameter, and RPM?. Aren't we trying to match fuel mass to airmass? (OK, so behind the scenes SD calculations are using MAP, RPM, temperature... to estimate airmass.)

    Isn't the bias table really just a modifier to airmass (and hence VE calculations) on the basis that the higher the flow of air in g/sec, the less time the air spends in the intake, the less engine heat it picks up, and the higher the density of the air mass that makes it into the cylinder (g/cyl)? Does this really mean that we're stuck with a circular calculation? Or can we actually get a VE table that works at a given temperature and just deal with air density changes caused by temperature using the Bias?

    2005 Grand Prix GXP - 5.3 LS4 - HP Tuned, MF catback, 1.8 rockers, K&N, Some day I'll finish putting the LS6 intake on

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    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhardsupra
    the traditional method of just following AFR% error automatically attributes ALL fueling errors to the VE table, which is just not true
    That pretty much sums it up.

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    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiredGXP
    I'm wondering if the way that VE is presented and used isn't fundamentally flawed - does it make sense to record VE against MAP and RPM or would it make more sense to chart it against Cylinder Charge(g/cyl), or some other airmass parameter, and RPM?. Aren't we trying to match fuel mass to airmass? (OK, so behind the scenes SD calculations are using MAP, RPM, temperature... to estimate airmass.)

    Isn't the bias table really just a modifier to airmass (and hence VE calculations) on the basis that the higher the flow of air in g/sec, the less time the air spends in the intake, the less engine heat it picks up, and the higher the density of the air mass that makes it into the cylinder (g/cyl)? Does this really mean that we're stuck with a circular calculation? Or can we actually get a VE table that works at a given temperature and just deal with air density changes caused by temperature using the Bias?

    In the world of either measuring or estimating air mass, I only know of two ways to estimate. Speed Density (pressure dictates flow) or Alpha-N (Restriction dictates flow). There are other ways to view the SD model - like relative or absolute volume or the unit in which you view it, but you can't equate it strait to mass, that why its refered to as volume (VE). The temperature and stuff, let us estimate the mass that fills the volume. So its sort of a double estimation. So unless someone comes up with a other way to estimate the volume of air from something other than pressure (MAP), restriction (TPS), and RPM - The only thing left to do is measure directly with a means like a MAF.

    The bias table is more of a, hell I don't know, way that estimating is better than measuring. You can put a MAT sesnor in the engine and directly measure end product air temp. But the problem is that they are prone to absorb heat from whatever fastens them in the port, and are slow to respond. I'm sure that they make some space age sensor that reacts super fast to change (very little temperature capacitance) and is durable enough for automotive use, but I'm sure they probally arn't economically advantagous. The Bias since its a mathmatical model responds instantaniously and is based on two readings that are relativly stable and don't have to be super responsive. So from the view point of the time it was created, estimating the MAT from ECT and IAT was a better solution than measuring it directly.

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    Advanced Tuner TiredGXP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluecat
    In the world of either measuring or estimating air mass, I only know of two ways to estimate. Speed Density (pressure dictates flow) or Alpha-N (Restriction dictates flow). There are other ways to view the SD model - like relative or absolute volume or the unit in which you view it, but you can't equate it strait to mass, that why its refered to as volume (VE). The temperature and stuff, let us estimate the mass that fills the volume. So its sort of a double estimation. So unless someone comes up with a other way to estimate the volume of air from something other than pressure (MAP), restriction (TPS), and RPM - The only thing left to do is measure directly with a means like a MAF.

    The bias table is more of a, hell I don't know, way that estimating is better than measuring. You can put a MAT sesnor in the engine and directly measure end product air temp. But the problem is that they are prone to absorb heat from whatever fastens them in the port, and are slow to respond. I'm sure that they make some space age sensor that reacts super fast to change (very little temperature capacitance) and is durable enough for automotive use, but I'm sure they probally arn't economically advantagous. The Bias since its a mathmatical model responds instantaniously and is based on two readings that are relativly stable and don't have to be super responsive. So from the view point of the time it was created, estimating the MAT from ECT and IAT was a better solution than measuring it directly.
    The recurring word in this discussion seems to be "estimate".

    The hard part is figuring out what data we can "measure", and how we present and analyze the data in order to understand what is really going on. And then, of course, figuring out what can or should be adjusted, and how those adjustments can be expected to affect fueling.

    It looks like Marcin has figured out how GM estimates MAT, which is pretty cool, but as I think someone else pointed out, just because we understand how MAT is calculated doesn't necessarily mean that what GM did was perfect - just good enough so that the NB's only have to pick up a few % in CL.

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    GM actually uses temperature probes and O2's in each cylinder to figure out their tunes. I would also bet they spend a certain amount of time in each weather condition to make a tune, meaning a new tune for a new model probably takes them measurements over at least 6-8 months at a time, then they make an algorithym that approximates the differences they measured and apply that to the PCM's. Not an easy or short term process.

    We do not normally have that equipment so at best we are adjusting on an overall results basis.

    But, I do agree with the initial post about don't kill yourself trying for perfection, close enough is good enough or you will end up pulling out a lot of hair in frustration.

  20. #20
    Advanced Tuner TiredGXP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBA
    GM actually uses temperature probes and O2's in each cylinder to figure out their tunes. I would also bet they spend a certain amount of time in each weather condition to make a tune, meaning a new tune for a new model probably takes them measurements over at least 6-8 months at a time, then they make an algorithym that approximates the differences they measured and apply that to the PCM's. Not an easy or short term process.

    We do not normally have that equipment so at best we are adjusting on an overall results basis.

    But, I do agree with the initial post about don't kill yourself trying for perfection, close enough is good enough or you will end up pulling out a lot of hair in frustration.
    I expect that you are correct about GM putting in a fair bit of effort into building their stock tunes. But GM is also dealing with mass production tolerances and with cost/reliability compromises.

    Vehicles with DOD/AFM are a good example, GM uses exactly one NBO2 to control the fueling for 8 cylinders in the LS4 and the tune is built accordingly. There is just one VE table despite the significantly different airflow characteristics of V4 vs V8 modes (different cam lobe profiles on the DOD cylinders versus the ones that deactivate). (Maybe there is something else for DOD in the tune that Chris hasn't unlocked yet.)

    NBO2's are a great thing for OEM's - they can compensate for things like production tolerances, temperature changes and even significantly different VE of DOD vs non DOD operation - With that being the case, I expect that GM gets the tune "good enough" for the NB's to handle the nits.

    I guess that's where we come in - we can customize the settings for the physical characteristics of individual engines.

    2005 Grand Prix GXP - 5.3 LS4 - HP Tuned, MF catback, 1.8 rockers, K&N, Some day I'll finish putting the LS6 intake on