I'm trying the program with an 08 ls3 vette and using the stock equation numbers I output a table but then when I reverse the process and use the table numbers I just generated then the equation output is different than stock. I'm not sure what I'm missing. I have automatic format and automatic zone boundaries checked. I've set max rpm between 6800 and 7200 with no differences and I have zones set from 0 to 29. Bluecat please PM me as well. Thanks.
I uploaded the numbers that were generated and the car ran the same. I then edited the table in the idle map/rpm regions and added 10% hoping to add 10% fuel at idle. Generated a new equation and uploaded those figures but the car ran the same with the same a/f as before. So now I'm stumped. All of this was in SD and OL.
I'm also logging the GM VE PID against map and rpm and it displays a different number than the table generates. I really have no reference here.
Why does the generator alter the rpm boundaries?
Is it possible to get a table that works with the LS3? When logging the open loop airflow gain vs. map vs. rpm table there are different rpm and map values than that of the ls2?
On the not matching, thats to be expected. There are just to many ways to generate the numbers and the process my program uses is pretty complicated. Espically the way its setup to make edges priority and the fact that I'm not using the "solve an equation" approach that most people are. if a=b then b=a dosen't work 100% here. Just a little change in the ve table will make a big change in the numbers that it generates, at least by just looking at the raw numbers. The only way you'll get it to generate the exact same numbers everytime is to use the exact same program settings with the exact same ve table.
As far as your change not showing up, not sure what to tell you there. Even on a ve table car, sometimes changes don't do exactly what thier supposed to do. Plus how you added 10% matters. If you only did a few cells around idle it may have "ignored" the change. Everything has to be smooth and realistic looking to work with the equation generated ve numbers. Generating the numbers has about the same effect of hitting the smooth button a few times. It may have just filtered out your changes.
The GMVE numbers not matching your working ve table numbers is also normal from what I've seen. The GMVE number you datalog is after its been manipulated by air density stuff and the bias table. Its not any different on a early ls2 with a real ve table. Your trying to compare raw vs digested numbers.
On the altering rpm boundries, thats just part of it trying to make a better match to the ve table. It takes the ve table and looks at what rpms the ve make the biggest changes and evaluates them into what it thinks will yield the closest contured match.
Not sure what you mean on a table that will work with a ls3, but since you mentioned "open loop airflow gain vs. map vs. rpm", I'll assume your looking for a table format where you can just pick the table out of the scanners list to build histograms with. I think everyone else has been doing what I've been doing and manually setting up the histograms in the scanner with ls1 or ls2 axis formats so we can use the interpolation and smoothing features built into hptuners. I never though about using that table, but since it is map vs rpm we could do that. It's just kinda acward for most people since it goes to 180kpa.
Last edited by Bluecat; 07-22-2008 at 08:25 AM.
Bluecat thanks for the time and the response. After a while more of some trials I've got the car where I want it in speed density. Thank you very much for coming up with this program. I noticed the problem with the decimals and spikes like others were seeing but considering our options I made the numbers what they needed to be for a/f to be at my liking. I did try to put the numbers in excel and reduce the number of decimal places but everytime I copied it into Editor there seemed to be an extra number and it would wrap around to the next line. Probably an error in excel on my part but I just kept using the numbers generated by your program and made changes in the VE table I was using as reference to get the car where I wanted.
Regarding the LS3 open loop airflow gain vs. map vs. rpm I only suggested that as a mock VE table in terms of what we're used to. The rpm increments only increase by 200 and the map values are back to round numbers rather than the crooked ones in the LS2 VE. Now I see how that may be a problem though considering there are no baseline numbers for such a VE table unless the generator develops one.
Either way I have the program figured out and thank you once again for taking the time to come up with this and help everyone out. There'd be no ls3 ve tuning without it because afaik we have no way to log what zone we're in while the car is running, let alone what increments and tables are necessary to change fueling.
There is actually a check box for limiting it to 5 past the decimal.
It wouldn't take anything to add that table so you wouldn't have to manually setup a histogram. But you loose the main benifit of the standard ve formats, and thats is being able to cut and past back into hptuners to use the interpolate and smoothing. You can't do it with that table because the max number size is 2.0.
Ok, we are at the 7th update. Just updated the link on the first page of this thread.
Not much different, a few issues fixed, none realtive to number generation. Changed the default state of resloc check box to checked. The biggy is the addition of a help file in the form of a readme.txt. Should help a lot of people who have struggled to get up and running. Talks about the flow of data, usage of options, and file formats. Dosen't tell you what to do with the ve numbers once you get them, nor how to manually setup ve table histograms on vehicles that don't have ve tables. Those can all be addressed somewhere else. I just wanted to give the required info on how to use the program properly.
Anyone planning on coming out with a nice, easy to use program for manipulating tables, not that I don't enjoy rubbing them around in excell or copying them into an LS2 table to work with.
Just being lazy.
anyone planning to pay for it?
lol, I hear you. Wish I had the ability to wrap my head around what would be needed to make something of the like.Originally Posted by redhardsupra
anyone planning to pay for it?
I'm thinking it wouldnt be a horrible project to write an interface that would let you manage files of either the table or equation variety.
You could open and save different specs with standard dialog boxes, and you could also then pick a file, and hit a button. This would put the files in the places the EQ_VE.exe expects with the names it expects, load it, and all you'd have to do is hit a button and voila - it would be "converted" ...
... this is as far as one could get without the source code. At that point, one could give that source code up so bluecat could integrate his code into it, and it'd be his.
Then he could make it all into one program. He could still deal only with the actual work and someone else could improve the interface.
I'd do it, but .... um ...
..
(...tempted to though. Wish I had the time.)
how hard would it be to get this to work for the V6 people?
what's the problem with v6's VE table?
I actually started on a verson last week were you can cut and paste the data strait into the program. (for the whiners) I'm just so maxed out with tunes and installs I don't have a lot (any) of time for it.
Yea. Those damned whiners.
Cut and paste would be nice. Save a few steps. I'm just getting entheused about VE tuning again ... haven't done any of it in over 6 months ... all too often have just turned off VE and ran MAF. However, VE would be nice (its there for a reason!)
Perhaps you should toss the donation link back up again Bluecat...
Bluecat:
Please let me know if you ever need any help with some programming. Not sure what language you made your program in, but I have been a programmer in Visual Basic for 15+ years, also know C# and C++.
One of the things I know I could probably do is make a paste function from your program to the calc tables, this would speed things up considerably for tuners like yourself and reduce typos or mis-pastes to the wrong table.
Update:
Actually finished a program today in .NET, works awesome. Takes me just a couple seconds now to copy from hpt file an put into equation.txt or to read equation_out.txt and paste it into hpt file.
Cheater...
Post it up to passify these people until I get the next update ready.
The new and improved version resides here...
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...421#post140421
I'll keep the old version and the link at the begining of this thread up for a while.
Still trying to polish it up for public use, did you still want me to post it, I see you have your new version out? I think my program is a litlle different, it actually gets the window handles to HPTuner and puts the equations and tables in for you, haven't gotten to look at yours yet though.Cheater...
Post it up to passify these people until I get the next update ready.
Reply With Quote
