Replaced E67...no start

[Cringer]

I am helping someone out with an LS swap. Car had a GM crate E67 (newer 127 lb/hr limit) and was running fine. Guy bought a used E67 (older with 63 lb/hr limit) from a V6 and swapped it in. I copied over all the settings, re-did the injector data and MAF, disabled VATS, etc. However, it won't start.

The key on engine off log shows spark and airmass are ready to go...but the cranking log shows all values go to zero (no air, no fuel, no spark). Since the cranking log also shows 0 RPMs does that indicate a wiring/CAN issue (or would a VIN/VATS issue also show that as well)?

What did I miss?

1.0 - New ECM.hpt
1.0 - New ECM - new pcm key on engine off.hpl
1.0 - New ECM - key on engine off + CRANKING.hpl

[TheMechanic]

From what I understand there is a bunch of behind the curtain stuff on the crate motors. I struggled with one about 7-8 years ago only to discover there where things I would attempt to change and it would not let me. Info I learned from others was that due to EPA "Stuff", it was as if GM locked the tune.

[edcmat-l1]

First question would be, you did a write entire after disabling VATS?

FWIW, I routinely replace the GMPP E67s with later CTSV controllers. I'm not sure if the early ones aren't wired slightly different. Alvin would probably know. He's the TBSS guy.

[edcmat-l1]

From what I understand there is a bunch of behind the curtain stuff on the crate motors. I struggled with one about 7-8 years ago only to discover there where things I would attempt to change and it would not let me. Info I learned from others was that due to EPA "Stuff", it was as if GM locked the tune.

There are hard limits on several things in them. I've been shit canning them for years. I have a stack of E67s all flashed with my "canned" speed density file for their LS3s. I just swap them out.

[Cringer]

From what I understand there is a bunch of behind the curtain stuff on the crate motors. I struggled with one about 7-8 years ago only to discover there where things I would attempt to change and it would not let me. Info I learned from others was that due to EPA "Stuff", it was as if GM locked the tune.

Correct. The big gripe is being locked out of setting idle RPM.

First question would be, you did a write entire after disabling VATS?

FWIW, I routinely replace the GMPP E67s with later CTSV controllers. I'm not sure if the early ones aren't wired slightly different. Alvin would probably know. He's the TBSS guy.

Yes a write entire was performed. I will suggest a CTSV version. Any good sources for those?

[edcmat-l1]

Yes a write entire was performed. I will suggest a CTSV version. Any good sources for those?

I buy them off Ebay a lot. I do my own GM programming so that makes them cheap. I also have a local resource and I buy them 4-5 at a time when available, cheap. I sell them so let me know if you need one. I'd bet Alvin sells them also.

The only deal with using the V version is you lose the IAT table unless you wire in an IAT2. But I don't care. They run just fine without it. And most are set to not work most of the time anyway.

Quick Ebay search of the PN and there aren't any real cheap ones right now. Cheapest ones are averaging just over 100. Last 2 I got off Ebay were 75 bucks a piece. I pay as little as 50 for cores locally 4 or 5 at a time.

PN: 12633264

[Cringer]

I buy them off Ebay a lot. I do my own GM programming so that makes them cheap. I also have a local resource and I buy them 4-5 at a time when available, cheap. I sell them so let me know if you need one. I'd bet Alvin sells them also.

The only deal with using the V version is you lose the IAT table unless you wire in an IAT2. But I don't care. They run just fine without it. And most are set to not work most of the time anyway.

Quick Ebay search of the PN and there aren't any real cheap ones right now. Cheapest ones are averaging just over 100. Last 2 I got off Ebay were 75 bucks a piece. I pay as little as 50 for cores locally 4 or 5 at a time.

PN: 12633264

Would any GM programming be required for a swap? I am hoping we can read the CTSV E67, compare/copy settings from the existing crate E67 (and disable VATS), then do a Write Entire. Is more needed?

[edcmat-l1]

Would any GM programming be required for a swap? I am hoping we can read the CTSV E67, compare/copy settings from the existing crate E67 (and disable VATS), then do a Write Entire. Is more needed?

That PN goes in a bunch of cars. The only V8 car I know of is either a V or ZL1. I flash them all with a V base file just because that's what I base them on. So if you buy that PN off Ebay from anything other than an LSA vehicle you'll need to flash it with a GM tool.

If you don't have the capability, if you buy one off Ebay PM me I'll flash it for ya on the cheap. Just pay shipping both ways and buy me a beer.

[gtstorey]

Why was the new E67 replaced if it was running fine? I understand they have issues, but I'm wondering if you have the full story.

[edcmat-l1]

Why was the new E67 replaced if it was running fine? I understand they have issues, but I'm wondering if you have the full story.

Because they suck. There are multiple things hard coded, the idle being the most obvious one.

[Alvin]

You can't just write entire one of these ECM's. It's also not a good idea to copy from one OS to another. A good example of why would be how some have a ECT Idle min airflow multiplier of .25 others are near 1.

Hptuners is only showing you a small portion of what is inside the ECM. There will still be lots of V6 stuff in the background.

I'm surprised so many you don't like the GMPP setup. I've done a metric ass ton of them and I enjoy them. Always a huge difference over what they come with. I do most with a 2 bar OS rescaled to 1 bar. I sell a off/low/High fan setup for them that uses the OEM fuse block and we were selling a 6l80 w/ tap shift setup for them also.

I don't like any of the tranmsission options the GMPP stuff have come with. Its been like 8 different controllers/revisions at this point. They all suck compared to T42/T43

If it's an auto I might would use GM programming software to set it up like a Trailblazer SS. There were manual LS2 E67 CTS V's also if you need a manual. In either case pedal compatibility/throttle body would be a concern.

GM programming software is required for any of this.

Also.. You cannot use GM programming software to make a GMPP computer. If you brick one you have to buy a new one from GM.

[Alvin]

The NA E67 LS2 CTSV is the generation prior to LSA. 06-07?? I can't remember exact year range now.

[Cringer]

You can't just write entire one of these ECM's. It's also not a good idea to copy from one OS to another. A good example of why would be how some have a ECT Idle min airflow multiplier of .25 others are near 1.

Hptuners is only showing you a small portion of what is inside the ECM. There will still be lots of V6 stuff in the background.

I'm surprised so many you don't like the GMPP setup. I've done a metric ass ton of them and I enjoy them. Always a huge difference over what they come with. I do most with a 2 bar OS rescaled to 1 bar. I sell a off/low/High fan setup for them that uses the OEM fuse block and we were selling a 6l80 w/ tap shift setup for them also.

I don't like any of the tranmsission options the GMPP stuff have come with. Its been like 8 different controllers/revisions at this point. They all suck compared to T42/T43

If it's an auto I might would use GM programming software to set it up like a Trailblazer SS. There were manual LS2 E67 CTS V's also if you need a manual. In either case pedal compatibility/throttle body would be a concern.

GM programming software is required for any of this.

Also.. You cannot use GM programming software to make a GMPP computer. If you brick one you have to buy a new one from GM.

To be clear, we did not do a write entire from the GMPP source ECM. We did a read of the OEM ECM, made normal tuning changes in HPT (including disabling VATS), and then did a write entire. The GMPP ECM was only used to copy the values over.

[Alvin]

Yep, that doesn't work and again its not a good idea either.

[TheMechanic]

Also.. You cannot use GM programming software to make a GMPP computer. If you brick one you have to buy a new one from GM.

Interesting. I was able to SPS the one I was talking about but again that was 7 or so years ago before TechLine Connect that I use now. SPS recognized it right away. I did the Replace and Reprogram function with the old still installed and then the swap when prompted.

[Cringer]

Yep, that doesn't work and again its not a good idea either.

OK so it sounds like the other segments (unreachable by HPT) would need to updated. Hence SPS flash.

[edcmat-l1]

The idle being locked at 950ish is a widely known issue.

It's been quite a while since I've even messed with one but I remember there being injector data issues that caused fuel trim issues, flat lining, etc. and I even remember one unit I could not adjust the speedo no matter what I did. Nothing else was connected, inline, etc. Replacing with a "street" ECU fixed it. Now I don't even bother.

[Alvin]

The idle being locked at 950ish is a widely known issue.

It's been quite a while since I've even messed with one but I remember there being injector data issues that caused fuel trim issues, flat lining, etc. and I even remember one unit I could not adjust the speedo no matter what I did. Nothing else was connected, inline, etc. Replacing with a "street" ECU fixed it. Now I don't even bother.

Either that's been fixed or its limited to one particular REV. I don't have either of those issues. I'm not kidding when I've said i've done an absolute TON of them. I did 8-10 Track attack cars for Hendrick racing. They were modified GMPP 454's. They requested a 1300 RPM idle I think for the dry sump system or to make the little clutch fly wheel setup more easy on the driver.. It's been a couple years now. I don't remember. Anyway those had no problems setting idle that high. I lower almost every one I do and put a OEM type curve to it so they idle faster cold.

Those track attack cars also had 1000cc injectors against my recommendation. no problems. I do not do those cars for them anymore.

[blindsquirrel]

Main issue here is, the new ECM still has the 3.6L OS in it, trying to run LS V8 hardware.

[edcmat-l1]

Either that's been fixed or its limited to one particular REV. I don't have either of those issues. I'm not kidding when I've said i've done an absolute TON of them. I did 8-10 Track attack cars for Hendrick racing. They were modified GMPP 454's. They requested a 1300 RPM idle I think for the dry sump system or to make the little clutch fly wheel setup more easy on the driver.. It's been a couple years now. I don't remember. Anyway those had no problems setting idle that high. I lower almost every one I do and put a OEM type curve to it so they idle faster cold.

Those track attack cars also had 1000cc injectors against my recommendation. no problems. I do not do those cars for them anymore.

I know you used to tune for Hendrick.

I'm not talking about setting the idle HIGHER than 950. I'm saying you can't LOWER it.

Same with running different injectors. Not talking about using the controller to run different size injectors I'm talking about issues they have with the hardware and software they have.

I just got to the point of not even screwing with them anymore. Too many problems. The last one where I couldn't change the speedo did it for me.