2013 ram cold start light throttle lean condition help please

[hardeet]

im new to tuning and bought this truck just to learn how to tune dodges. when ECT is under around 160 it runs super lean on light throttle until its warmed up to operating temp then runs perfect. im still tuning the VE tables after the intake swap and new injectors but this started after i swapped the cam please point me in the right direction. thanks in advance.


vehicle 2013 ram 1500 5.7l
6.4l non-mds cam
no cats
borla muffler
6.4l intake manifold
6.4l injectors
6.4l air cleaner
non-mds lifters
pac 1218 springs



2013 RAM non-MDS step 3 6.4l injector data VE tuning.hpt
lean cold start light throttle.hpl

[JD40]

You're still far off with the VE tables but if you're only having issues when temps are cold I've had success messing with VE ECT/IAT correction tables. If it seems like its lean everywhere use the ECT Factor table if its a specific rpm range you can use the ECT Mult table. Mult table determines how much of the Factors correction you're looking to use at that specific rpm. 4ex if you have 1.05 at 32deg F in the factor table then it will add 5% fuel as long as the mult table is commanding 1.0. If mult table is say .5 then it will only use half of the 5% (so 2.5% increase) coming from the Factor table.

Here is a comparison of your table with the table in my personal car that also had cold fueling issues:
ECTfactor1.PNG ECTfactor2.PNG
(Note there is a difference in scaling, I'm also running a colder thermostat so take that into account for where 1.0 will be)
But before touching any of that get your VE table dialed in

[edcmat-l1]

It's lean because you have nearly -30% baked into the long-term trims. Once you dial in the VE closer those should go away. I wouldn't make any other changes until the VE is dialed in to less than 5%.

[hardeet]

It's lean because you have nearly -30% baked into the long-term trims. Once you dial in the VE closer those should go away. I wouldn't make any other changes until the VE is dialed in to less than 5%.

thats my issue though i have had the VE table within a 3% error and gets worse the so i completely started over from stock file thats why VE is out again. i was assuming i did something wrong along the way and couldnt find it. thanks for taking a look though. ill get my VE dialed in before adjusting anything else and post another log

[hardeet]

You're still far off with the VE tables but if you're only having issues when temps are cold I've had success messing with VE ECT/IAT correction tables. If it seems like its lean everywhere use the ECT Factor table if its a specific rpm range you can use the ECT Mult table. Mult table determines how much of the Factors correction you're looking to use at that specific rpm. 4ex if you have 1.05 at 32deg F in the factor table then it will add 5% fuel as long as the mult table is commanding 1.0. If mult table is say .5 then it will only use half of the 5% (so 2.5% increase) coming from the Factor table.

Here is a comparison of your table with the table in my personal car that also had cold fueling issues:
ECTfactor1.PNG ECTfactor2.PNG
(Note there is a difference in scaling, I'm also running a colder thermostat so take that into account for where 1.0 will be)
But before touching any of that get your VE table dialed in

thanks i had a feeling that was the table that i needed to adjust i just wasnt exactly sure how those tables functioned together

[hardeet]

i got the VE table pretty close for street tuning and tried to use the ETC multi and ETC factor tables by adding almost 50% to them and still no luck with my issue

[edcmat-l1]

thats my issue though i have had the VE table within a 3% error and gets worse the so i completely started over from stock file thats why VE is out again. i was assuming i did something wrong along the way and couldnt find it. thanks for taking a look though. ill get my VE dialed in before adjusting anything else and post another log

i got the VE table pretty close for street tuning and tried to use the ETC multi and ETC factor tables by adding almost 50% to them and still no luck with my issue

You're making random changes and you don't know what you're doing. Why don't you do like you said you were going to do and get your VE closer and then post another log?

[hardeet]

You're making random changes and you don't know what you're doing. Why don't you do like you said you were going to do and get your VE closer and then post another log?

2013 RAM non-MDS VE.hpt
VE good.hpl

my VE table is fine and I changed what was recommended to be changed by the other guy hoping it would help but it did not.
no, I don't completely know how all the tables function together or I wouldn't be asking questions and changing things and seeing how things are affected. is that not how someone would learn how to tune?

[f.creek-ranch]

When engine is hot reset all adaptives.
I would enable NN, dial in injectors, then tune ve.

I have not doing this yet on this ecm, but seems the right way for me.

[edcmat-l1]

The VE isn't right I can tell you by the shape of it. You have some baked in issues most likely injector data but without seeing your unmolested tune file to compare to and spending the time to find it I can't tell you exactly what it is, just that I know it's there.

2013 Ram VE.jpg

[hardeet]

The VE isn't right I can tell you by the shape of it. You have some baked in issues most likely injector data but without seeing your unmolested tune file to compare to and spending the time to find it I can't tell you exactly what it is, just that I know it's there.

2013 Ram VE.jpg

look man I understand answering basic questions all the time is frustrating, but everybody starts somewhere and that's something I have to continuously remind myself here in the shop, so I don't get frustrated with the younger guys coming in trying to learn how to work on cars. if I need to pay for information to learn on my own I will just from my understanding and research there isn't a whole lot of dodge information out there. if you are willing to spend the time and help me understand some of the things going on and how to avoid them in the future, I would appreciate it and if not, I understand. One way or another I will learn how to tune dodges with or without help.

here is the "unmolested" tune


2013 RAM factory tune DO NOT CHANGE.hpt

[hardeet]

When engine is hot reset all adaptives.
I would enable NN, dial in injectors, then tune ve.

I have not doing this yet on this ecm, but seems the right way for me.

thanks for the info. is turning the NN back on before tuning injectors because the VE or the injectors need to be dialed in before you can accurately adjust the other?

[edcmat-l1]

look man I understand answering basic questions all the time is frustrating, but everybody starts somewhere and that's something I have to continuously remind myself here in the shop, so I don't get frustrated with the younger guys coming in trying to learn how to work on cars. if I need to pay for information to learn on my own I will just from my understanding and research there isn't a whole lot of dodge information out there. if you are willing to spend the time and help me understand some of the things going on and how to avoid them in the future, I would appreciate it and if not, I understand. One way or another I will learn how to tune dodges with or without help.

here is the "unmolested" tune


2013 RAM factory tune DO NOT CHANGE.hpt

I totally did not think my post came off as sounding frustrated.

[hardeet]

I totally did not think my post came off as sounding frustrated.

maybe I just read it wrong, I apologize.

i took two more logs today

first thing this morning cold start.hpl

and also one on the drive home drive home.hpl

and this is whats currently in the truck 2013 RAM non-MDS VE.hpt

im almost 100% sure injector scaling is off it now has the 6.4 injectors and i havent been able to really find something that just says this is the 6.4 injector data so i have been trying different things to try to get them some what close.

[edcmat-l1]

There's a lot of stuff wrong. Not like "I'd do it different" but from 5.7 to 6.4 intake swap, numerically wrong. And I can tell from the shape of the VE you're baking in decel fueling or decel fuel cutoff. You should never have a trench in a VE table. That's just what I saw with a quick look. Didn't go past injector data and VE tables.

[hardeet]

There's a lot of stuff wrong. Not like "I'd do it different" but from 5.7 to 6.4 intake swap, numerically wrong. And I can tell from the shape of the VE you're baking in decel fueling or decel fuel cutoff. You should never have a trench in a VE table. That's just what I saw with a quick look. Didn't go past injector data and VE tables.

are you referring to the trench at 0.10 Pratio through the whole RPM range or my trench at around 1,250 RPM through the whole Pratio range?

and the intake manifold your saying the manifold volume is wrong? thats not something that even crossed my mind to change but i just found the volume is supposed to 15.74l for the 6.4l manifold while i was looking for 6.4 injector information

and i have dfco disabled by setting the enable coolant temp to 376 degrees atleast i think thats all thats needed to disable DFCO

could my injector scaling be causing this issue?

[edcmat-l1]

It's most likely a combination of things. The injector data is part of it. I didn't spend a bunch of time looking through everything but I saw enough wrong in the few minutes I did spend.

[f.creek-ranch]

Begin with NN injector data, right intake volume.
Airflow should even be right before go to VE, this make it easier.

[edcmat-l1]

Begin with NN injector data, right intake volume.
Airflow should even be right before go to VE, this make it easier.

Are you speaking from experience or from something you read online? My belief is if you aren't going to use the NN trainer, you turn NN off and tune it in speed density.

[MI_Tuning]

this is how its done with Diablo sport as we dont have the ability to Train the NN , so the same can be done with Hp tuners as no need to tune in SD if you can adjust the Inj Scaling.