2007 LC9 DoD delete +Truck Norris Initial Setup Questions

[TragicMike]

Hello Forum,

First-time poster and first-time tuner here.
I may be jumping the gun on this post because I do not have my MPVI3 yet and I am still building the engine.
However, if anyone would like to help me learn and prepare, I would appreciate it.

The project:
2007 Chevy Avalanche 4wd vin3 LC9 factory DoD / non-VVT

A timing gear failure at 200k led to a complete teardown and rebuild.
Decided to remove the DoD components and go with a BTR Truck Norris camshaft.
Everything else is stock (or near stock) replacement.

I will be saving the factory tune ASAP, and hopefully I won't need to modify it too much.
But... after browsing a few files from the forums I do have some questions.

What areas of the VCM Editor should I mostly be concerned with for initial startup?

DoD Disable seems obvious, but how I go about adjusting the timing and injector pulse to the new camshaft does not.

Thanks in advance for anybody who reads or replies.
I will be updating as I go in case anybody else needs it in the future.

[TragicMike]

Helpful Links:

Placeholder

[blindsquirrel]

Your link is broken, but I think you meant this: https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...e-(w-pictures)

I'd suggest that using a Gen 3 guide on a Gen 4 would not give great results, if it didn't get you so confused part way through that you started hitting random things with a large hammer.

Maybe try this instead? https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...e-tuning-guide

[TragicMike]

tyvm

[TragicMike]

I happened across this short blog post from an Aussie tuning shop and found it interesting:
(They may even be a member here?)

It seems to be a different approach for Idle control

I am curious whether this is a "quick and dirty" approach, or if they are onto something.
Perhaps torque settings are closer to the root of the control equations?

gen-iv-e38-e67-idle-control

[Guy With A Chevy]

I happened across this short blog post from an Aussie tuning shop and found it interesting:
(They may even be a member here?)

It seems to be a different approach for Idle control

I am curious whether this is a "quick and dirty" approach, or if they are onto something.
Perhaps torque settings are closer to the root of the control equations?

gen-iv-e38-e67-idle-control

That is just one approach and area to be covered. It's instructions are meant to cover the minimum to get started it really paints a bad picture on how easy tuning is in my opinion. Everyone's viewpoint on this is probably biased upon how much experience they have.

The approach to tuning is different on build application and style(amount of knowlege). This link doesn't even explain the type of tuning being performed you are doing as in maf or SD first. Reading the guides found here will fill the picture faster so include hptuners in every search you do where applicable. Search for "types" of tuning i.e SDOL, Idle tuning gen 4, base idle airflow gen 4, spark tuning to avoid knock and maybe add power, make sure you understand mechanically how your vehicle works this includes all the sensors and the operation of them. Before getting into tuning myself I knew a choke on an engine would control cylinder airmass during the normal operation.

I did not know that the choke precisely controls everything not just fuel intake with a vacuum. All the teaching of chokes and airmass never state the what if there was no choke on an engine. I know this is a simple part of physics most people may have gotten with the "vacuum" principal I missed this somewhere along the way being a 15E, Roughneck, Crop duster/Small plane mechanic, Home builder and just an overall tool for everything else inbetween.

[ns158sl]

Go to a dyno right away to get your VE table dialed in. I spent waaaay too much time adjusting fueling at the lower RPM's driving around.

[TragicMike]

Finally got the engine together and MPVI3 set up.

First night was a little disappointing.

Engine won't start. I thought I had a plan. It failed and devolved quickly into button clicking.
I may need to go more aggressive with the timing advance, but I was somewhat hesitant and ended up doubting myself. Added 2deg per attempt.
Plan.JPG

[TragicMike]

Original tune and latest (failed) attempt attached

[blindsquirrel]

I would put the tune back to stock then diagnose why you have a no-start. That camshaft alone on a stock tune should not cause a no-start.

[TragicMike]

Thank you for the reply. I was curious about that.

I reverted to stock.

Just to be extra clear: this was a full rebuild, so do I need to teach the ECM where the crank is?
The only info I have found on relearn requires the engine running.

For some reason VCM scanner seems to stop logging as soon as I try to crank the engine. Looking into that now.

Ground issue maybe... control module voltage drops to 6.4ish before crashes.

[TragicMike]

Update:

Dumb mistake. I had pulled the injector fuses months ago during diagnosis.

Fired and ran on stock tune.

Scanner seems to be working. I did clean the grounds but not sure if that mattered.

[blindsquirrel]

A quick squirt of brake/carb cleaner would have found that right at the beginning.

This is universal to (nearly) everything that runs on gasoline and has EFI:
- Key on, is there a Check Engine light? If no, check power/ground to the ECM. If yes, next...
- Squirt of something flammable into the throttle body. If it runs you know right away you can ignore anything to do with spark and concentrate on the fuel supply. If it doesn't run when squirted, check for spark.
- If it has spark, it's possible the squirt didn't work because it already had too much fuel. Disable fuel pump and/or injectors, clear it out, and squirt it again.

It's kind of like if you've ever played with a metal detector on the beach. You get a beep, dig out a scoop of sand, then: is the thing still in the hole, or in the pile of sand you dug out? If it's in the hole, dig some more. If it's in the pile, divide it in half and keep dividing until you find it.

[TragicMike]

The "something flammable" that I tried was cheap 25% ether. Didn't do the trick.
Dry plugs led me to the fuse block.

Playing with idle now.

[TragicMike]

Fairly happy with this idle at temp.. but I'm sure it is nowhere near done.
https://youtu.be/4Gzh5t0xYHI

Settings are near stock:

Idle RPMs +50 everywhere
Disabled Proportional and Integral Error by setting to 4k.
+2 g/s Airflow Min and Startup
Injection Timing Boundary smoothed at midrange
Normal ECT EOIT -20 across the board

011 I think I like.hpl
003 Near stock-I Think I like.hpt

[TragicMike]

@ Sensai blindsquirrel

What should I learn and/or think about this funky looking spark advance chart?

AdvanceTable.JPG

[blindsquirrel]

I think you would be even happier with it after tuning it properly instead of adding some arbitrary amount to the idle speed & BRAF tables.

[kevin87turbot]

Fairly happy with this idle at temp.. but I'm sure it is nowhere near done.
https://youtu.be/4Gzh5t0xYHI

Settings are near stock:

Idle RPMs +50 everywhere
Disabled Proportional and Integral Error by setting to 4k.
+2 g/s Airflow Min and Startup
Injection Timing Boundary smoothed at midrange
Normal ECT EOIT -20 across the board

011 I think I like.hpl
003 Near stock-I Think I like.hpt

Just a few tips for you...
Your idle target is still too low...You'll find that the engine dies pretty often at that idle speed.
Most of the vehicles that I tune with that combo are idled between 725-775 rpm.
After that, you'll have to add more Min Airflow and startup airflow. I would re-enable the Adaptive idle and let it function.
You're still in hybrid mode. Change the Dynamic Airflow High RPM disable to 200 and the Re-enable to 100.
That will allow you to focus on tuning the MAF first.

[edcmat-l1]

Fairly happy with this idle at temp.. but I'm sure it is nowhere near done.
https://youtu.be/4Gzh5t0xYHI

Settings are near stock:

Idle RPMs +50 everywhere
Disabled Proportional and Integral Error by setting to 4k.
+2 g/s Airflow Min and Startup
Injection Timing Boundary smoothed at midrange
Normal ECT EOIT -20 across the board

011 I think I like.hpl
003 Near stock-I Think I like.hpt

Don't do that. Nobody does that.

Your idle target is still too low...You'll find that the engine dies pretty often at that idle speed.
Most of the vehicles that I tune with that combo are idled between 725-775 rpm.

No. That's too high for an E38 especially with a stock converter. That cam should idle fine at 600ish 650 tops. I can idle larger cams at 650 especially with a stock converter. I'd rather they idle as low as possible to avoid pushing.

[TragicMike]

Thank you both for the replies.
Still learning here.

I set the airflow adaptives that way so that they weren't chasing the timing adaptives.
Between SilverSurfer's explanations and attempting the Gen IV Idle Tuning guide it just seemed to work out at the time.

They have been reverted to more normal values.

That idle was at stock timing as well. It seems to be more difficult when advanced.

Transfer case and front end are back together, now I can work on rolling tunes.