Thank you. I'm going to try to figure out the best way to measure but my last check was very close to 1oz for right about 3hrs of drive time. Not the best way to measure im sure. Next time i measure it, i will use oz. per mile.
Thank you. I'm going to try to figure out the best way to measure but my last check was very close to 1oz for right about 3hrs of drive time. Not the best way to measure im sure. Next time i measure it, i will use oz. per mile.
Looking into this clickety-clack PCV setup. Do you know of any cars that used it so that i can check into what parts are needed and how to incorporate them?Originally Posted by blindsquirrel
I'm thinking i may need a set of gm valve covers with the PCV provision cast into them. Would that be better than the baffled Proform valve cover?
Can't go wrong with factory valve covers. They have the best baffling. Aftermarket is always half assed
I've used these with good results including putting them in the valley plate.
https://www.google.com/search?client...radium+20-0561
Then one of these in the other valve cover. Turns out pretty nice.
https://www.google.com/search?q=radium+20-1000-1008
And if you want to get retarded:
https://mewagner.com/?p=444
Thanks for the link man! These look usable with my current can. Definitely looking into the can mounted unit.
This might have something to do with you pulling on the crank case from two spots. One should be plenty. The ports for the PCV have a metered orfice in them. Take a hose and blow into the crank on the valley cover or drivers rear valve cover.. then do the PS front cover and you'll see what I mean. By using the Y you are doubling how much you are pulling from the crank case.
All these things consume oil. Some can be a bitch about knock sensitivity if they are eating too much oil. I'd say it isn't unusual to fill up a catch can between oil changes.
Its really disappointing that the cans don't pop off like they are advertised to do at WOT.
Tuner at PCMofnc.com
Email tuning!!!, Mail order, Dyno tuning, Performance Parts, Electric Fan Kits, 4l80e swap harnesses, 6l80 -> 4l80e conversion harnesses, Installs
Thanks Alvin.
I'm assuming here, so, let me know what you think. This could possibly be why my oil psi @idle reads low. I have the Holley 302-1 pan (6qts) and if it gets any bit low, the oil pressure starts dropping. That along with increasing under hood temps drops it a fair amount. How can I keep the oil in the engine and not fill up the can?
On one engine I just bent up a small piece of sheet metal and bolted it inside with the PCV valve as a baffle. Worked great and with the black valve covers and putting it between rockers it turned out nice.
pcv.jpg
That does look good. It's good to know that I do have some options. I just need to make sure what all components I need to make this work. I'm thinking: get the sealed lid for my current can and add one of those Radium valves at the can. (insert any recommendations here) Alvin says only pulling from one spot should be fine, so I should be able to get rid of one of those bulky hoses that way too, and i like that.
Radium has a lot of cool looking fittings. Different colors etc. Seems to be good quality too. I like the vent side one as it rotates to any position. They have different AN sizes also. Would work nicely on a catch can although now that I did this on a gen 4 valley cover I'm not sure I would do it any other way. Clean easy install. Just make sure to stake the back side so vibration doesn't send an aluminum nut down the engine or valve cover area.
The PCV valve I used on mine was just what I had laying around, that being an old SBC style. I made an aluminum piece with a 3/8" hose nipple on the bottom that pushes onto where the valve would originally have gone into a VC grommet. Then stuck it inline with the stock LS fixed orifice device-of-fail.
There was way too much air being drawn with the stock setup - throttle was too closed at idle, and timing was lower than it should have been. Even though BRAF had already been cut by nearly half. Idles so much better now, and oil still stays clean just as long.
You do not want a catch can or large lines on a wet sump engine breathing from itself.
PCV is the most mis-understood topic in performance engine history yet it is the most important right next to oil pressure.
The PCV system in general wet sump application has only two goals:
A. Maintain a pressure below atmospheric at all times inside the crankcase
B. Provide adequate evacuation (streamlines) for evacuation of blow-by harmful combustion gas
These two simple goals when met, yield these results:
1. Maintain clean engine oil, reduce carbon deposits & promote engine longevity
2. Reduce blow-by and improve piston ring sealing performance
3. Maintain small diameter oil droplet suspension and increase mean free path of oil gaseous molecules allowing oil to return the oil pan more easily and preventing formation of large oil droplets
4. prevent oil leaks and keep oil out of engine oil seals
5. Keep oil out of engine air/oil separator baffle systems
PCV has two separate yet connected systems which handle these goals,
The wide open throttle side
and
The idle/cruise side
The idle/cruise side has powerful intake manifold vacuum to provide kinetic energy with which to evacuate combustion gas and requires a restrictor orifice on most engines, some engines use only a PCV valve and others will include an additional restrictor in the fresh air vent for the crankcase e.g. Nissan skyline RB25 engine and SR20 engines have such an orifice diameter restriction which can reduce the crankcase pressure during idle/cruise to target values.
Example of restrictor orifice
The target values for majority of wet sump engines is 0.5" Hg to 1.5"Hg. For performance engines we target 1.25"Hg to 2.5"Hg of crankcase vacuum. The PCV valve(s) and Restrictor orifice handle these settings for idle/cruise.
PCV valves are check valves but check valves are not PCV valves. The PCV valve is designed to respond to various engine pressures,
In natural aspiration the PCV valve offers a pathway for when crankcase pressure rises above atmospheric which leads to the intake manifold, this allows oil to accumulate inside the intake manifold and a major complaint of ignorant users who do not measure their crankcase pressure and set the pressure properly.
Crankcase pressure is like tire pressure, fuel pressure, coolant pressure, boost pressure, etc... it must be measured and set to a specific value. Imagine installing a fuel regulator or boost controller and neglecting to set the fuel or boost pressure. The same thing happens when people mess with the engine and PCV system and fail to measure the crankcase pressure and set it properly.
At wide open throttle is where most of the issue with PCV systems occur. During wide open throttle there low supply of kinetic energy to drive PCV system so care must be taken to reduce the volume and friction of the pcv system as a whole which promoting gas velocity. Adding catch cans and large lines increase crankcase volume, reduce the velocity of gas causing it to cool and slow in the lines and reduce the efficiency of and delay the response of the PCV system, the more gas molecules that need to be moved the slower the pressure will change in response to WOT conditions. OEM generally will use short as possible PCV lines of relatively small (often near 3/8") diameter, a trade between friction and velocity while minimizing crankcase volume. PCV gas should be kept HOT to promote velocity and many PCV systems rely on nearby exhaust warming lines for high velocity gas or short lines which can evacuate hot fast moving gas from the crankcase quickly before it will condense in the lines.
Wide open throttle Crankcase PCV pressure drop is provided by the air filter.
You can measure crankcase pressure using a 1-bar map sensor, for example here we measure this Z06 dry sump system
Map sensor voltage tells us the change in pressure and can be calculated linearly based on tenths of volts or directly by comparing with a gauge with sufficient resolution.
For example here I measured the PCV pressure drop of my 5.3L turbo using a 1-bar map sensor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oRbfNPnHaI&t=1476s
Keeping the map sensor on it's own voltage supply and regulator will prevent the vehicle electronics, grounding, voltage drop, EMI, etc.. from influencing results.
Comparing the "off" and "cold" values of the map sensor will ensure a practical range or threshold values for operating conditions of a map sensor, which elucidate an empirical verification, i.e. validated data collection free of technical error.
In conclusion, the OEM PCV system is ideal for wide range of applications, I have successfully 1000rwhp 3.0L Engines for 20 years using OEM pcv and imported those same OEM designs into all manner of high performance mostly turbo applications successfully across tens of engine manufacturer platforms
https://www.supraforums.com/threads/.../post-14023348
https://www.supraforums.com/threads/.../post-13980010
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1605398320
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...ml#post6466928
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1605147175
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l=1#post681019
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1604427919
5.3/4l80e/turbo playthrough
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ge-budget.html
cancer research
https://www.mdpi.com/2306-5354/10/1/96
That's good info, but one can skip all that work and time by putting in the adjustable one I posted. It's designed to be tuned to the specific application with a couple springs and a vacuum gauge.
Good info indeed. Thank you!You do not want a catch can or large lines on a wet sump engine breathing from itself.
PCV is the most mis-understood topic in performance engine history yet it is the most important right next to oil pressure.
The PCV system in general wet sump application has only two goals:
A. Maintain a pressure below atmospheric at all times inside the crankcase
B. Provide adequate evacuation (streamlines) for evacuation of blow-by harmful combustion gas
These two simple goals when met, yield these results:
1. Maintain clean engine oil, reduce carbon deposits & promote engine longevity
2. Reduce blow-by and improve piston ring sealing performance
3. Maintain small diameter oil droplet suspension and increase mean free path of oil gaseous molecules allowing oil to return the oil pan more easily and preventing formation of large oil droplets
4. prevent oil leaks and keep oil out of engine oil seals
5. Keep oil out of engine air/oil separator baffle systems
PCV has two separate yet connected systems which handle these goals,
The wide open throttle side
and
The idle/cruise side
The idle/cruise side has powerful intake manifold vacuum to provide kinetic energy with which to evacuate combustion gas and requires a restrictor orifice on most engines, some engines use only a PCV valve and others will include an additional restrictor in the fresh air vent for the crankcase e.g. Nissan skyline RB25 engine and SR20 engines have such an orifice diameter restriction which can reduce the crankcase pressure during idle/cruise to target values.
Example of restrictor orifice
The target values for majority of wet sump engines is 0.5" Hg to 1.5"Hg. For performance engines we target 1.25"Hg to 2.5"Hg of crankcase vacuum. The PCV valve(s) and Restrictor orifice handle these settings for idle/cruise.
PCV valves are check valves but check valves are not PCV valves. The PCV valve is designed to respond to various engine pressures,
In natural aspiration the PCV valve offers a pathway for when crankcase pressure rises above atmospheric which leads to the intake manifold, this allows oil to accumulate inside the intake manifold and a major complaint of ignorant users who do not measure their crankcase pressure and set the pressure properly.
Crankcase pressure is like tire pressure, fuel pressure, coolant pressure, boost pressure, etc... it must be measured and set to a specific value. Imagine installing a fuel regulator or boost controller and neglecting to set the fuel or boost pressure. The same thing happens when people mess with the engine and PCV system and fail to measure the crankcase pressure and set it properly.
At wide open throttle is where most of the issue with PCV systems occur. During wide open throttle there low supply of kinetic energy to drive PCV system so care must be taken to reduce the volume and friction of the pcv system as a whole which promoting gas velocity. Adding catch cans and large lines increase crankcase volume, reduce the velocity of gas causing it to cool and slow in the lines and reduce the efficiency of and delay the response of the PCV system, the more gas molecules that need to be moved the slower the pressure will change in response to WOT conditions. OEM generally will use short as possible PCV lines of relatively small (often near 3/8") diameter, a trade between friction and velocity while minimizing crankcase volume. PCV gas should be kept HOT to promote velocity and many PCV systems rely on nearby exhaust warming lines for high velocity gas or short lines which can evacuate hot fast moving gas from the crankcase quickly before it will condense in the lines.
Wide open throttle Crankcase PCV pressure drop is provided by the air filter.
You can measure crankcase pressure using a 1-bar map sensor, for example here we measure this Z06 dry sump system
Map sensor voltage tells us the change in pressure and can be calculated linearly based on tenths of volts or directly by comparing with a gauge with sufficient resolution.
For example here I measured the PCV pressure drop of my 5.3L turbo using a 1-bar map sensor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oRbfNPnHaI&t=1476s
Keeping the map sensor on it's own voltage supply and regulator will prevent the vehicle electronics, grounding, voltage drop, EMI, etc.. from influencing results.
Comparing the "off" and "cold" values of the map sensor will ensure a practical range or threshold values for operating conditions of a map sensor, which elucidate an empirical verification, i.e. validated data collection free of technical error.
In conclusion, the OEM PCV system is ideal for wide range of applications, I have successfully 1000rwhp 3.0L Engines for 20 years using OEM pcv and imported those same OEM designs into all manner of high performance mostly turbo applications successfully across tens of engine manufacturer platforms
https://www.supraforums.com/threads/.../post-14023348
https://www.supraforums.com/threads/.../post-13980010
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1605398320
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...ml#post6466928
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1605147175
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l=1#post681019
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1604427919
An LS7 with only 6 qts and no oil cooler I'm guessing? I'll guarantee if you checked oil temps you'd be shocked. That is where the oil pressure is going and could likely amplify pulling oil though PCV.
With the added PCV's to valve covers.. be sure they have a baffling underneath. That is a hard problem to solve.. stopping oil from being slung into a PCV port.
Tuner at PCMofnc.com
Email tuning!!!, Mail order, Dyno tuning, Performance Parts, Electric Fan Kits, 4l80e swap harnesses, 6l80 -> 4l80e conversion harnesses, Installs
Anybody could achieve the same results using a $0.02 restrictor orifice or adding an additional pcv valve as needed to either increase or decrease flow rate during idle/cruise.
And that aside. You are wrong because PCV valves have absolutely NO CONTROL over wide open throttle crankcase pressure. And the WOT side is the most important aspect because that is when oil control is needed most. The only thing which can control WOT pressure is the air filter. Nothing to do with the pcv valve which is slammed shut tightly at WOT and does nothing but block flow.
Look at the diagram you posted and dwell on it for a minute. PCV valve open or closed at WOT?
PCV valves do not seal up when vacuum is no longer applied. Jesus Christ.
Reply With Quote
