VVE and MAF Tuning

[morepowerjoe]

Hey guys so I've been trying to follow along with your threads "tuning maf and vve at the same time" and "what is dynamic airflow" but I am just barely grasping the concepts. I So I think I have a decent understanding on what to do but don't know how to apply the VVE / MAF PE stuff into the editor. What's the difference between the regular CL errors and the PE errors and how do I apply it to the editor or do I even need to? I didn't want to ask a bunch of dumb questions to your guys threads, that's why I didn't ask in your threads and created this one. Clarification will be much appreciated. Thank you.

[rabbs88]

The "What is dynamic airflow" thread can definitely be a little confusing at times but the information in there is excellent. The editor is basically your tune file with the available tables you can adjust while the scanner simply logs data as you drive and plots any graphs and custom math you have set up. Not be to be rude but you really should know how the scanner and editor both work in detail before attempting to use the formulas and filters within that thread. Would hate to see anyone mess up their car up. HP tuners has a YouTube page that has detailed videos showing how the software works. I would watch that and make sure that you know exactly what your setting up in the scanner as well as how and what the changes are that your applying in the editor.

[SiriusC1024]

11 minute video on how to do it linked here in the first post:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-the-Same-Time

Use the filter from post #144 here:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-airflow/page8

After that it's just like any other type of tuning where you copy-paste special into the tune.

Make sure you're logging Dynamic Airflow, Mass Airflow, Volumetric Efficiency Airflow.

Oh yeah don't fail the MAF or change High RPM Disable. Leave it factory settings. That's the point of the tuning method.

If you want to plot the filter to see its activity then make a user math for it separately. Right click the chart area to add. Select that math parameter you created. Make the min/max limits 0-8.

[morepowerjoe]

11 minute video on how to do it linked here in the first post:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-the-Same-Time

Use the filter from post #144 here:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-airflow/page8

After that it's just like any other type of tuning where you copy-paste special into the tune.

Make sure you're logging Dynamic Airflow, Mass Airflow, Volumetric Efficiency Airflow.

Oh yeah don't fail the MAF or change High RPM Disable. Leave it factory settings. That's the point of the tuning method.

If you want to plot the filter to see its activity then make a user math for it separately. Right click the chart area to add. Select that math parameter you created. Make the min/max limits 0-8.

Thank you Sirius again for your help. But I think I have all that down I just don't understand the PE error stuff and what to do with that data from the scanner. I understand what power enrichment is I just need a little help figuring out what to do with the data I'm producing.

[SiriusC1024]

You would apply the PE stuff to the tables in areas where PE would be active, as configured in the Fuel tab. It's the same procedure as what you're already familiar with for SD or MAF.

Where Cringer was talking about selecting the right PID he's saying make sure that [number] matches your wideband scanner designation.

Is that what you were wondering?

[morepowerjoe]

Yes thank you.

[morepowerjoe]

When I use that filter you pointed out I get no data in my graph. But when I use Cringer's original filter it populates data. Does it have to do with the fact that I'm only using stft in the math?

[GHuggins]

As long as you're logging long terms you should be fine for the graphs math function. You can also have your channels open then look at the math formulas. Which ever one is pink will be the one you're missing.

Filters and formulas both work good.

Keep in mind cam movement for the wot tuning part as that's the only place your cam is moving.

You might also need to change the wot tps setting depending on what you're logging for tps - might need to be changed to something less than 80 for the OL wot part to pick anything up.

Otherwise just make two identical VE tables in your scanner with one logging the OL and the other logging the CL formulas. Filters should be the same for both.

[morepowerjoe]

As long as you're logging long terms you should be fine for the graphs math function. You can also have your channels open then look at the math formulas. Which ever one is pink will be the one you're missing.

Filters and formulas both work good.

Keep in mind cam movement for the wot tuning part as that's the only place your cam is moving.

You might also need to change the wot tps setting depending on what you're logging for tps - might need to be changed to something less than 80 for the OL wot part to pick anything up.

Otherwise just make two identical VE tables in your scanner with one logging the OL and the other logging the CL formulas. Filters should be the same for both.

I think it might be my darn laptop being so slow, because every since I installed those graphs in the scanner it has slowed down my laptop significantly. I'm thinking that when I open up the scanner on my laptop it takes a while to pull everything up and that's why it's not populating the data. It's really strange because when I'm driving it doesn't show data in the graph or after I stop the log, but when I add Cringer's filter all the data pops up and then I can change the filter to SiriusC1024's and it all still shows up.

[morepowerjoe]

So when I was logging I was using Cringer's math expressions using only the stft. I don't know if that matters or not but I am logging ltft so I just changed the math expression to the one with the stft and the ltft and it looks to be the same data.

[GHuggins]

Guess it's time for all of us to upgrade laptops then Mine's taking about 5 minutes to open some customer's logs, but mine started after adding in a bunch of torque model tables to log. Maybe it's just the limit of hpt's scanner's processing power? I priced out what I would consider a basic high end laptop and it was $1000 and still didn't have the memory I wanted. Really high ends up to $5000. WTF??? When did computers go to the moon and require you to buy all the simple little things to work with them? I just replaced the monitor on mine with another parts one I had. Guess I'll just wait for the moment and delete the graphs I don't need anymore cause that's ridiculous!

[morepowerjoe]

Guess it's time for all of us to upgrade laptops then Mine's taking about 5 minutes to open some customer's logs, but mine started after adding in a bunch of torque model tables to log. Maybe it's just the limit of hpt's scanner's processing power? I priced out what I would consider a basic high end laptop and it was $1000 and still didn't have the memory I wanted. Really high ends up to $5000. WTF??? When did computers go to the moon and require you to buy all the simple little things to work with them? I just replaced the monitor on mine with another parts one I had. Guess I'll just wait for the moment and delete the graphs I don't need anymore cause that's ridiculous!

Yeah I got a cheap a** laptop for $220 that I've been using, not the best but it gets the job done most of the time. Now it looks like I can get three times the laptop for around $500 from Newegg. Not too bad a deal. But our office computer just went out too, it's four years old though I guess we got our money's worth form it.

[Alvin]

You are much better off disabling the MAF and tuning the VVE stand alone by itself.. Then re enabling the MAF if you wish.

Doing them both simultaneously works sometimes.. Doing them separately works everytime.


As far as the logs.. I think HPtuners scanner is just on the inefficient side. I do CAD modeling and can load up assemblies with 2 gig file size and it handles that OK. But anything more than 15 minutes on a GEN 4-5 will slow this computer to a stop. I will say the person that gets my work ready in the morning pre-checks the logs for issues and her computer has no issue with it. But she isn't loading up all the graphs nor maths in her scanner like mine. So.. it will be the graphs and maths that are the slow down.

[SiriusC1024]

Filter works well with MAF and VVE solo, too.

[morepowerjoe]

Filter works well with MAF and VVE solo, too.

So my current settings for the high rpm disable are set to 400 rpm and high rpm re-enable to 300 rpm. If I set my high rpm disable and hi rpm re-enable back to stock will it change the way it currently runs? The reason I ask is because that's the way my current tune is set up and you said not to change them from stock.

[SiriusC1024]

Oh no sorry to confuse you. You can use the UMAP term to filter SD tuning and the UMAF term to filter MAF tuning. Make sure you're filtering airflow not the sensors themselves, and be sure you're logging the channels for them. Proceed as normal for each as far as failing the MAF and high rpm disable stuff. When I said don't touch those I was speaking about using the DynAir tuning method for simultaneously tuning both airflow models.

SD:

ABS([2311.71]-[2311.71.shift(-10)]) < ([2311.71]/[2311.71.shift(-10)])*0.1 OR [50090.156] > 95

MAF:

ABS([50040.71]-[50040.71.shift(-10)]) < ([50040.71]/[50040.71.shift(-10)])*0.1 OR [50090.156] > 95

Double check the TPS number matches the designation for your TPS sensor in order to catch WOT pulls.

You might still want to give the DynAir method a try. It's pretty solid.

[morepowerjoe]

Thank you for the info. I have more questions but I'll ask them a bit latter.

[morepowerjoe]

Oh no you where thinking I was using the traditional way of tuning the MAF and VVE but I am in fact trying to use the DynAir to tune the MAF and VVE stuff all at the same time. Sorry for the confusion. When I was referring to the PE stuff I meant for the DynAir tuning. So do I set the high rpm disable back to stock for DynAir tuning?

[GHuggins]

I always leave it 100% MAF even at idle as the VE table changes will change the MAF settings. Not sure if it's better to leave it in mixed mode since the whole goal is to make the VE table the same as the MAF?

[morepowerjoe]

I'm really confused with all these filters circulating around. I really just need to know which filter to use in the scanner for DynAir tuning with the MAF CL and the VVE CL. Could someone please just post the correct one for me to use? Thank you