Keep getting KR on low boost and timing

[LFTRTIK]

I'm new to tuning and at WOT i keep getting KR on low boost and Timing. Am I too lean?

What am I doing wrong? Thanks for looking.

2015 silverado 5.3 78/75 single turbo stock fuel system.
Attachment 135442Attachment 135441

[GHuggins]

OK, so everywhere you're knocking your throttle is over opening or going to 100% while you pedal is still 30% to 60% causing it to stay in closed loop while making boost. You need to control the throttle more for starters. With yours being turbocharged and a blow through setup you should be able to raise the airmass side about 5 to 10 percent, dial in your VVE or if nothing else smooth it a lot and then dial in your DD errors better. This should improve it quite a lot, but without being able to change some other tables I'm not sure if you'll be able to get 100% of it. I just glanced at your tune, so can't comment on anything other than what I mainly saw in the log.

[LFTRTIK]

OK, so everywhere you're knocking your throttle is over opening or going to 100% while you pedal is still 30% to 60% causing it to stay in closed loop while making boost. You need to control the throttle more for starters. With yours being turbocharged and a blow through setup you should be able to raise the airmass side about 5 to 10 percent, dial in your VVE or if nothing else smooth it a lot and then dial in your DD errors better. This should improve it quite a lot, but without being able to change some other tables I'm not sure if you'll be able to get 100% of it. I just glanced at your tune, so can't comment on anything other than what I mainly saw in the log.

Thank you for taking your time to look at this. I have it defaulted to MAF only for WOT tuning (idk if I did it correctly). I did mess with the tables under “throttle torque request” that helped with throttle response could that be causing my throttle to over open or is that in the DD tables?

[GHuggins]

That'll make it responsive but not necessarily the problem. Doesn't help things either way. Usually just having the top tables in their stock maxed settings is enough for that.

The VVE and Map side of the torque model directly control the throttle. Airmass side does too, just not as much. Airmass seems to influence spark more, but will still influence throttle either way. The problem however is that the map side of the torque model also directly controls transmission downshifting, so I don't recommend raising it any in your normal driving rpm area, otherwise it won't downshift when it needs to. To work around that first off get rid of all of the big peaks and dips in the VVE. ECM is using this table as a direct torque calculation input to the map torque model so all of those big peaks and dips can cause the throttle to jump.

Defaulting to MAF doesn't work how you think it does on these. Again VVE is still used for the map torque calculation.

The throttle rate table is the one you really need altered. You'll have to contact or PM Will_974 on here to get it added into your calibration. You need one for boost instead of a NA truck one. I can send her one to put into your calibration and then all you have to do is dial the rest in for it if you want.

[LFTRTIK]

That'll make it responsive but not necessarily the problem. Doesn't help things either way. Usually just having the top tables in their stock maxed settings is enough for that.

The VVE and Map side of the torque model directly control the throttle. Airmass side does too, just not as much. Airmass seems to influence spark more, but will still influence throttle either way. The problem however is that the map side of the torque model also directly controls transmission downshifting, so I don't recommend raising it any in your normal driving rpm area, otherwise it won't downshift when it needs to. To work around that first off get rid of all of the big peaks and dips in the VVE. ECM is using this table as a direct torque calculation input to the map torque model so all of those big peaks and dips can cause the throttle to jump.

Defaulting to MAF doesn't work how you think it does on these. Again VVE is still used for the map torque calculation.

The throttle rate table is the one you really need altered. You'll have to contact or PM Will_974 on here to get it added into your calibration. You need one for boost instead of a NA truck one. I can send her one to put into your calibration and then all you have to do is dial the rest in for it if you want.

So when tuning should I even bother defaulting to MAF or SD?
In your opinion should just put the throttle torque request back to stock and how should I adjust the DD table?

I PMed Will_974 if you could send that table to him.

[GHuggins]

So when tuning should I even bother defaulting to MAF or SD? Yes, you still need to tune each in.
In your opinion should just put the throttle torque request back to stock and how should I adjust the DD table? I use throttle error to adjust it where I go off of pedal to throttle plate error. It won't get it 100%, but it puts it under better control. The throttle rate table should get things back better for you.

I PMed Will_974 if you could send that table to him. Already sent it to her. You'll have to pay a very small amount for finding the coding, changing it and putting it back into the cal for you. Extremely reasonable... If you want other tables added or to be able to edit the tables you'll have to have user defined parameter access.

[will_974]

Along with the throttle rate table,
G Huggins, Do you think that the pedal progression table needs to be changed here as well?

[jlaudio11]

That'll make it responsive but not necessarily the problem. Doesn't help things either way. Usually just having the top tables in their stock maxed settings is enough for that.

The VVE and Map side of the torque model directly control the throttle. Airmass side does too, just not as much. Airmass seems to influence spark more, but will still influence throttle either way. The problem however is that the map side of the torque model also directly controls transmission downshifting, so I don't recommend raising it any in your normal driving rpm area, otherwise it won't downshift when it needs to. To work around that first off get rid of all of the big peaks and dips in the VVE. ECM is using this table as a direct torque calculation input to the map torque model so all of those big peaks and dips can cause the throttle to jump.

Defaulting to MAF doesn't work how you think it does on these. Again VVE is still used for the map torque calculation.

The throttle rate table is the one you really need altered. You'll have to contact or PM Will_974 on here to get it added into your calibration. You need one for boost instead of a NA truck one. I can send her one to put into your calibration and then all you have to do is dial the rest in for it if you want.

Without hijacking this thread can you point me in the direction of more discussion on the throttle rate table and pedal progression tables? My turbo Camaro is fairly dialed in maf & vve with close to stock vt tables, it races good but not the smoothest to just drive.

[GHuggins]

Along with the throttle rate table,
G Huggins, Do you think that the pedal progression table needs to be changed here as well?

It might actually wind up needing to be changed for decel and dfco not to mention idle torque and timing, but hopefully the throttle rate table will help control the throttle enough on it's own.

[GHuggins]

Without hijacking this thread can you point me in the direction of more discussion on the throttle rate table and pedal progression tables? My turbo Camaro is fairly dialed in maf & vve with close to stock vt tables, it races good but not the smoothest to just drive.

I actually discussed them as I was experimenting with them in other threads that I sorta hijacked while discussing what the thread was about at the same time.

As best I can tell the throttle rate table is using sonic airflow. If it is then it has pressure ratio, vacuum, temperature and air density all figured into it. This seems to be the case so far with how well it's helped to control the throttle. I still feel like there is another table tied to this that we still need to find that directly relates to boost better, but with some augmenting this table seems to help tremendously with precise throttle control while building and holding boost.

The pedal progression table seems to directly influence idle torque and timing, decel/dfco, rev matching, neutral free rev and engine hold back/control in rev. I've actually started editing this table in some cam and boosted tunes.

We've only been messing with these for about a month, but so far everything is looking very promising. Drivability and control is what we're after with these. The same thing you're talking about. You'll need user defined access to fully edit them.

[LFTRTIK]

I actually discussed them as I was experimenting with them in other threads that I sorta hijacked while discussing what the thread was about at the same time.

As best I can tell the throttle rate table is using sonic airflow. If it is then it has pressure ratio, vacuum, temperature and air density all figured into it. This seems to be the case so far with how well it's helped to control the throttle. I still feel like there is another table tied to this that we still need to find that directly relates to boost better, but with some augmenting this table seems to help tremendously with precise throttle control while building and holding boost.

The pedal progression table seems to directly influence idle torque and timing, decel/dfco, rev matching, neutral free rev and engine hold back/control in rev. I've actually started editing this table in some cam and boosted tunes.

We've only been messing with these for about a month, but so far everything is looking very promising. Drivability and control is what we're after with these. The same thing you're talking about. You'll need user defined access to fully edit them.

So I got in touch with Will_974 and got me set up with the table and loaded into the tune. Now I’m getting -25?+ of torque timing. Do I need to start from scratch with VVE, MAF AND VT?

[GHuggins]

Throw a log up. Haven't had one do that yet if im understanding you correctly.. Is throttle control better? Vve needs dialing in regardless. Maybe not a bad idea to post the tune and the xdl file too.

[GHuggins]

If its just at idle make sure to do the throttle clean reset a few times too

[LFTRTIK]

If its just at idle make sure to do the throttle clean reset a few times too

23-08-11 16-27-04.hpl turbo MAF 25 -5 AT 1.25 degrees leaner PE trans tune mod hpfp higher TCC LOCK4TH tq request stoc.hpt

Idles fine its just having trouble driving.

[GHuggins]

Maybe if you could post a pic circling what you're talking about in the log. What I see is throttle following pedal now like it's supposed to along with some tip in lean issues and negative timing at idle because it needs the throttle clean reset done to it. If you mean it just doesn't feel as "peppy" as it did that's just because throttle is doing what it's supposed to do and not going wot with small pedal inputs. You can increase the DD if need be to "pep" it back up how you want it now. Honestly we could have possibly put the lt4 throttle rate table in yours and been good enough. The throttle rate table I gave Will was a fairly aggressive PD blower table to provide control for extreme circumstances.

If you want me to do that for you, you'll have to post the xdf or xdl file that William gave you as they are all specific for that particular OS. I'll need it to look in the tune and change it since this is technically my fault.

[will_974]

I sent you a re modified tune file with the LT4 Throttle Rate Table.

I agree with GHuggins, The truck will feel slightly less peppy when the throttle is behaving correctly.
Its going to be less digital, and match closer to the pedal input.

[LFTRTIK]

Maybe if you could post a pic circling what you're talking about in the log. What I see is throttle following pedal now like it's supposed to along with some tip in lean issues and negative timing at idle because it needs the throttle clean reset done to it. If you mean it just doesn't feel as "peppy" as it did that's just because throttle is doing what it's supposed to do and not going wot with small pedal inputs. You can increase the DD if need be to "pep" it back up how you want it now. Honestly we could have possibly put the lt4 throttle rate table in yours and been good enough. The throttle rate table I gave Will was a fairly aggressive PD blower table to provide control for extreme circumstances.

If you want me to do that for you, you'll have to post the xdf or xdl file that William gave you as they are all specific for that particular OS. I'll need it to look in the tune and change it since this is technically my fault.

If you look at the log it shows 30% throttle and torque management is pulling a lot of timing then the trucks just bogging out.

[GHuggins]

If you look at the log it shows 30% throttle and torque management is pulling a lot of timing then the trucks just bogging out.

Let me know if it still does it with the lt4 table. It may just be where I had lowered the lower end of that one map. Only place I see it doing this you're giving it 12% or less pedal input. Usually when it does that it's the torque model and DD commanding negative. In this case it's hopefully just the throttle rate table commanding more neg in the lower region. Make sure you're writing entire and doing throttle clean resets after the fact. Then let it idle a few minutes before driving.

You really need user defines access so you can adjust things how they're best for you.

[LFTRTIK]

Let me know if it still does it with the lt4 table. It may just be where I had lowered the lower end of that one map. Only place I see it doing this you're giving it 12% or less pedal input. Usually when it does that it's the torque model and DD commanding negative. In this case it's hopefully just the throttle rate table commanding more neg in the lower region. Make sure you're writing entire and doing throttle clean resets after the fact. Then let it idle a few minutes before driving.

You really need user defines access so you can adjust things how they're best for you.

I wrote entire and did the throttle clean it is much better but the idle is surging a little. Still getting KR but I can't upload the log seems to be too big of a file. Do you know of a way to edit the log to make it shorter?

[GHuggins]

Log File - Export Log File - Selection only (what ever the box is covering at the bottom will be what it exports) - hpl format and selected. That should allow you to post it. Sounds like you need to finish tuning it. As long as the throttle isn't opening on it's own anymore with the lt4 rate table you just need to tune the PE, VVE, spark, DD, transmission to downshift when needed, MAF and so on tables for the mods.

For anyone else wondering the lt4's rate table isn't enough with a big pd blower most of the time to control the throttle like it needs. You have to tweak it a little further.