Going back to stock tune for diagnosis?

[nxs450]

I have a 2019 f150 5.0 with stage 2 Whipple.
I installed the Whipple, opg's, VMP fuel pump booster and DW95's. I am using a well known remote tuner.
After loading the first tune the truck fires up right away no problems at all. I went out and did the the first 2k to 5k log and no issues. Sent log file to tuner and he returned the second file.
I loaded second file and proceeded to go out and log. A few blocks from my house the truck started making terrible noise. Sounded like when a nut is loose in a bell housing rattling around. I shut the truck off and now it won't start at all.
I instantly thought something came loose under front cover. I pulled the front cover off and all is perfect. No metal in oil filter, still in time, nothing is wrong.
I continue to troubleshoot and have determined the noise is more then likely the starter engaging while truck was running.
As far as why it won't start it isn't getting fire at coils to plugs but I can not figure out why, no codes thrown.
I talked to Ford about diagnosing and they said it would have to be put back to stock tune, but they are a month out. I took it to another reputable shop and they said everything mechanically is fine and the truck should run. (Only 20k on truck and no issues prior)
They also said it would need to be flashed back to stock to diagnose any further.
My tuner says it can't be done without removing Whipple because the truck won't run. I emailed back and told them I understand that it is only for diagnosis, and I haven't heard back.
So I'm wanting to to know what can be flashed back to stock just for diagnosis or not. Or if anyone has any ideas what might be going on. The only thing I did when troubleshooting was replaced the crank sensor, and bypassed fuel pump booster.
Like I said it isn't getting fire from coils fuel pressure is 70lbs.

Thanks

[veeefour]

What the Torque Sorce PID status reports??

[nxs450]

What the Torque Sorce PID status reports??

I don't know what that is. I'm having it remotely tuned.

[nxs450]

So I flashed the pcm back to stock so the shop I have it at could diagnose it. They just called and said the pcm is not communicating with other modules or systems. In other words the pcm is fried. Is there a risk something that can happen when custom tuning.

[veeefour]

Id say PCM is ok just the calibration is funky. Bring it back to stock with IDS

[TheMechanic]

Id say PCM is ok just the calibration is funky. Bring it back to stock with IDS

I agree. Typically if the PCM/ECM communicates with a scan tool it is typically (hardware) OK. Software of possible pairing must be performed first. Typically communication errors will come down to shorted/open com wire or a single bad module that takes down a com line. First and foremost an attempt to communicate to all modules on high and low speed communication lines would be a must.
As veeefour said it can be software.

[nxs450]

Well I was able to get into another Ford dealership on August the 4th so they should be able to figure it out?
I don't want to throw anymore parts at it, especially $1k ecm

[nxs450]

I agree. Typically if the PCM/ECM communicates with a scan tool it is typically (hardware) OK. Software of possible pairing must be performed first. Typically communication errors will come down to shorted/open com wire or a single bad module that takes down a com line. First and foremost an attempt to communicate to all modules on high and low speed communication lines would be a must.
As veeefour said it can be software.

I flashed it back to stock with the HP device that is how the other shop just checked it. However they didn't seem real interested in working on it so I'm not sure about there diagnosis. He said he had no Way of telling if it is the computer or not. How do these shops stay in business if they can't properly diagnose.
However over 20 years ago I worked at a transmission shop and we had a lot of computers laying around just to try and see if it fixed the problem when we thought it was a ecm problem. Especially on Taurus with AX4N and Chrysler 604's

[nxs450]

If Ford was to verify it is the ecm but want to charge a fortune, can I flash my original stock file to a brand new ecm and be good. Or is there more to it then that?

[TheMechanic]

If Ford was to verify it is the ecm but want to charge a fortune, can I flash my original stock file to a brand new ecm and be good. Or is there more to it then that?

Wow I could go on for days about bad shops but I think it started when they dumped things like auto shop in high school. Everyone needs to go to college so they can say "do you want fries with that?". Now being a mechanic seems to be a I have failed at everything I guess I'll just be a mechanic. Not knowing to be a good tech how much intense studying and time is involved in learning how to diagnose. I have watched dealerships slowing change into parts changers. Local Chevrolet dealer is over $240 an hour with a 2 hour min. Can't count how many vehicles get towed in to me with THOUSANDS of dollars in parts hung on them just to discover it has a broken timing belt or bad compression. So many young mech's thing every malady is electronics and forget the whole compression, spark, and fuel "thing". I have very little hope for the automotive industry. We will at some point just have throw a way cars and trucks.
As to a new PCM. Not sure but with a good amount of certainty it is unlikely that you will be able to fully flash a new PCM/ECM with HP Tuners. There are sections that it just does not read or write.
With that said there are lots of shops that will have IDS that can do factory programming without you having to put down the big bucks to program. Just call around. Bet that if you call a shop that doesn't they will be able to tell you that they have "A guy" that does.
Way before that you need a good diag so you are not replacing good parts. It is likely that the same guy that does the programming will or will know a good for diag guy.

[nxs450]

Yeah but there factory trained and ASE certified! Well hopefully I get a good mechanic. I can usually tell by talking to them for a few minutes if they are going to be qualified to find the problem.
I have never had any training and have always used some common sense and the process of elimination to troubleshoot. I can do almost anything mechanically and some electronics. The thing is now days I believe you do need a little training or a lot of school of hard knocks, and some specialized equipment. I also know when I'm in over my head

[TheMechanic]

GM spent hundreds of $10's of not $100's of thousands on me for training in Burbank Kalifornia. The instructors at the time were no nonsense guys. You got hands on testing. The only reason I didn't go All World is the dealership I was at wouldn't pay for the testing. They sent me because I filled all of the per-requisites. You had to have X and Y to go to the school Z. One of the funnest was the convertible top on the SSR. Has its own module that controls the top. Neat stuff. If you are after the money you go driveablity, electrical 15A, brakes, A/C. Heavy line and trans is back breaking unless you have helpers do all the heavy work. Every heavy line guy I know by the age of 50 their body is shot to sh*t. Transmission guys by 50 have SEVERE contact dermatitis. All those hours with their hands in the solvent and tranny fluid takes its toll. ASE certified is hit or miss. Because almost everyone is required to have at least some you get a wide range of skill levels from horrible to fantastic.
Like I said if you find a person that does IDS programming they have spent some coin on equipment so it is MUCH more likely they are a better diagnostician.

[nxs450]

Well $1900 later I finally got my truck back from a local Ford dealership. The technician that worked on it said it was the PCM. I also told them that they were not to try starting truck with stock tune. I don't know if they forgot but I guess he tried it and it wouldn't start.
My question is should it of at least started or tried to start? I'm waiting on OZ now for new tune I just pray it was the PCM. If it still won't start do I have any recourse on dealership?
If it doesn't still won't start what is the bare minimum without purchasing IDS the tools and resources I would need to troubleshoot it myself.
Thanks Alan

[Pistol_91]

Well $1900 later I finally got my truck back from a local Ford dealership. The technician that worked on it said it was the PCM. I also told them that they were not to try starting truck with stock tune. I don't know if they forgot but I guess he tried it and it wouldn't start.
My question is should it of at least started or tried to start? I'm waiting on OZ now for new tune I just pray it was the PCM. If it still won't start do I have any recourse on dealership?
If it doesn't still won't start what is the bare minimum without purchasing IDS the tools and resources I would need to troubleshoot it myself.
Thanks Alan

I would imagine it would not start with your mods on a stock tune

[nxs450]

Got the truck home and loaded tune still same thing truck turns over but won't start. I checked my battery and it was reading 11.4 volts which is to low. Put new Motorcraft battery in cleaned every body to frame grounds and other ground wires. Still no go. I want my money back for new pcm obviously it isn't the problem will probably have to eat the labor.

[veeefour]

Got the truck home and loaded tune still same thing truck turns over but won't start. I checked my battery and it was reading 11.4 volts which is to low. Put new Motorcraft battery in cleaned every body to frame grounds and other ground wires. Still no go. I want my money back for new pcm obviously it isn't the problem will probably have to eat the labor.

email me everything, i will look into it

[nxs450]

Thanks for the offer but the tuning is done by OZ Tuning and is locked. However the great news is I finally found the problem. I pulled crank sensor out again and there was a broken bolt stuck to it. I scoped the sensor hole and could see the relucter wheel was damaged and bent. So I pull transmission and find the head of bolt laying in bottom of bell housing. That was the noise I heard the day I started having problems and thought starter was try to engage.
So that means the bolt has been in there ever since I purchased the truck new. Someone dropped it or something from factory. Really sucks after all this time and I know there is no way Ford will take care of it.
At least I know what the noise and problem is. I'm waiting on new billet relucter wheel gromm MMR and will be going back together.