TC-1767A 2016 Focus SE VCT Issues

[MotoFahren]

Hello,

I'm tuning a Mini Stock circle track car with a 2016 Focus SE engine, the customer has recently installed an ST intake manifold primarily for better fitment and engine placement in the chassis (foxbody)

I've got it almost back to the power we had before with the SE intake but I'm running into an issue with the exhaust cam position.
At 5,100rpm without fail it drops from 15* to 10* no matter what I try, I've changed all relevant mapped points and optimum power angle tables to 15*
VCT Schedule Mode shows Optimum Power, but you can see the distance to OP change from 0 to 5.

Any ideas what I'm missing? This is a race car that sees 4700-7800rpm and it's off throttle or WOT, I'm not concerned with drivability.

Please see attached log and tune file.
Dyno graph attached, thick line is previous near stock tune with SE manifold and thin line is new manifold.

[SiriusC1024]

Looks like the torque model is inaccurate.

Enable OP in Mapped Points Configuration. For OP enable hysteresis set it to 0.688 or something like that. Value has to be below enable load.

Fix the SD tables. Those values on the RPM axis are obviously wrong. Update Manifold Volume there, too (3.68L for a 2014 ST).

There's probably other stuff. If you'd supply me with the base SE file I'll get the SD tables working for you, among other things. I made a nice OP cam angle to SD table gaussian interpolation conversion sheet.

[MotoFahren]

Thank you for the input. I had tried with OP enabled in mapped points but there was also a snap to for 0-14 and it was going from 0 to 50% 0/14 very quickly at idle. I did try it again with that corrected and OP turned back on with no change.

Attached is the SE file before making any changes for the manifold. It's not the factory basemap, but it's the least modified base I have that got the engine running and working ok once swapped into the new chassis.

[Thatwhite5.0]

I don't see a dyno graph but I'd figure you'd benefit more top end power with less overlap. Have you ran these angles to 7k+ before and it recently began advancing the evc to 10?
Right now you're blending between all the mapped points because the evc are all set to 16. So what you're wanting to run -50/16 through the whole range?

[SiriusC1024]

I can work with that.

[MotoFahren]

I don't see a dyno graph but I'd figure you'd benefit more top end power with less overlap. Have you ran these angles to 7k+ before and it recently began advancing the evc to 10?
Right now you're blending between all the mapped points because the evc are all set to 16. So what you're wanting to run -50/16 through the whole range?

For some reason it isn't allowing me to upload an image.

Yes for the time being I would like to run -50/16 I was picking up power heading in this direction, ideally I would like to make more sweeps at several different angles, but got stuck when I wanted more than 10 on the evc.

[SiriusC1024]

I haven't forgotten about this. Looks like the main problem is that there are no torque values for OP. It'll take a few hours to make another interpolation spreadsheet for those tables. I just haven't gotten to it yet.

[RobCat030]

We dont use OP on these, and it isnt typically enabled. The issue is that half of the VCT limiter tables are missing. But I dont think OP will pick up any power moving the exhaust cam

[RobCat030]

For some reason it isn't allowing me to upload an image.

Yes for the time being I would like to run -50/16 I was picking up power heading in this direction, ideally I would like to make more sweeps at several different angles, but got stuck when I wanted more than 10 on the evc.

Correcting myself. I quickly took a look at the limiters, I don't see anything preventing +16 exh VCT. On the dyno I started to lose power as I approached 90 degrees of throttle angle (the engine was cammed but I think it's still relevant), you might pick some up by backing off that. I also found MBT timing to be well south of 30 degrees of timing, but I don't know the circumstances here.

Personally, I would disable all but MP0 and see if I can command the angles I want, if yes then there's a command issue, if not there is a limiter

[SiriusC1024]

MP9, MP10, MP11 all have the same cam angles and spark tables, but the torque models and SD tables differ. Explain that lol. There's no IMRC.

I see. I was looking at the modified file. It's not like that in the DO NOT TOUCH file. I was getting worried for a second.

Getting power heading toward -50/16? That makes sense because that's basically OP.

I'll get this all sorted tonight.

[SiriusC1024]

Stock cam specs were easy to find. That's a nice surprise.

Stock 2.0L Focus Ti-VCT Cam Specs:
Intake: .345" lift,209 duration @ .050"
Exhaust:.346" lift,216 duration @ 050"

https://esslingeracing.com/camshafts...-vct-camshafts

[RobCat030]

MP9, MP10, MP11 all have the same cam angles and spark tables, but the torque models and SD tables differ. Explain that lol. There's no IMRC.

I see. I was looking at the modified file. It's not like that in the DO NOT TOUCH file. I was getting worried for a second.

Getting power heading toward -50/16? That makes sense because that's basically OP.

I'll get this all sorted tonight.

OP on this car is -50/10 until 5k, then the intake cam tapers off. OP (Poster, not optimum power) wants to keep retarding the exhaust past 15-16, which I don't think will pick up any power, but he should be able to do it nonetheless. Speed Density and Torque tables aren't 100% relevant since he's past the WOT Threshold. Should it be fixed? Sure. Is it the reason his exhaust valve isn't holding 16 degrees? I can't see how.

I would be more concerned about why the MAF value and load are suspiciously low for this engine and whether or not 30+ degrees of timing is helping or hurting. I have an unfortunately intimate relationship with these cars.

[SiriusC1024]

What I'm focusing on is the part where he commanded OP, but it wouldn't hold there. IPC error maybe since the torque tables are zeroed there? He was adjusting cam and spark in a few MP's, but neglecting TQ tables. Can't do that.

[RobCat030]

OP is disabled in the MP configuration, so the torque, spark, SD, etc from OP are not used. The VCT Schedule is in Optimum Power, which means the angles should be coming from OP, and the weight's are following closely matching MP angles. He's not logging desired cam angles but I'll bet they show the exhaust valve desired dropping from 16 to 10 in the same place where actual angle is dropping. To me that says there is a exhaust phase limiter, not that the schedule mode is failing to stay in OP.

This isn't to say that it's not true that those tables need tuning if you wanted to use the OP tables. I'm just not sure how it's related to the issue

[SiriusC1024]

True. There's a lot wrong with that tune. We'll see how it goes with mine.

I thought you didn't see any phase limiters set that would cause not being able to reach 16 EXT?

[RobCat030]

True. There's a lot wrong with that tune. We'll see how it goes with mine.

I thought you didn't see any phase limiters set that would cause not being able to reach 16 EXT?

I stand corrected, found it. Exhaust Cam Phase Limit.

Screenshot 2023-07-08 235526.png

Morgan Trammel Foxbody 1.06 VCT angles trying for 15deg exh - FIXED.hpt

[SiriusC1024]

Where'd you find ECM 50000?

[RobCat030]

Where'd you find ECM 50000?

It's missing, I defined it myself

[SiriusC1024]

Haha that's a cool idea.
jp.png

Think it'll work? What are your thoughts on ECM 4232? Shouldn't that have been all that was needed?

[RobCat030]

That one needs to be out of the way as well. The table I showed is the exhaust counterpart to what HP calls ECM 38167 (I'm sure they have it mapped on some other platform, just not this one).

I'm pretty confident this was his issue because the table dropped off exactly at 5100rpm, exactly where his log commanded back to 10 degrees.

I have an unfortunately intimate relationship with these 2.0 GDI engines. Can't count how many I've done, primarily the PowerSh*t automatics.