2014 Mustang GT bolt on KR help

[Ethan5.019]

I have a 2014 Mustang GT MT82 car that I've been working on. I've added longtube headers, a gen3 intake manifold, and a 160 degree thermostat. I'm having a small issue trying to narrow down an instance of KR at about 6k rpm WOT and there also seems to be a small instance during normal driving acceleration. I would like help maybe pointing me in the right direction to eliminate the KR without having to pull all the timing out of the car. I'm attaching the WOT log and tune file.


2014 Mustang GT tune 93 22deg headers Intake manifold.hpt

93 Bolt on WOT 1st run.hpl

[Ethan5.019]

I took a completely stock file and only made the changes specific to the modifications I have and the initial file did not have any of the KR instances like my previous file so I edited the driver demand torque table a little more to get the pedal feel and drivability I wanted and now I have the knock again but only on a stop, start acceleration situation and not every time. I am attaching screenshots of my log. The car drives much better but I can't seem to figure out why it wants to knock at such a low load. I did notice the air load is higher during one situation that the other but I'm not sure why.

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[murfie]

It looks like you are getting some blending of drivability mode and Optimum power mode. Making where the spark is coming from jumping back and forth from values of MP7 and MP OP, they are 4-8* different, which is what I believe is causing your KR at about 6k WOT.
I believe this is because your driver demand table has torque values that are way too high. You say you only adjusted it for pedal feel. I would suggest putting the APP 406 and 542 rows back to stock, logging engine brake torque to see where that torque value is, and getting the values in the table close to what the ECU thinks WOT torque should be. This should not effect partial pedal feel, and will keep the car in OP mode where you want it. At WOT start pedal position it ignores getting the engine to achieve the driver demand table torue, and just uses the airflow and throttle body model. It doesn't have to be dead on, you just don't wan't the value to be way lower or way higher by over 100ftlbs.

Remove these (SAE) channels from your list and/or replace them with other avaliable channels. It will speed up the polling and your charts and graphs will fill out better.

[Ethan5.019]

Thank you for your reply. I will post the file I started over with and I will adjust my channels to get rid of the SAE stuff. The most recent file I've made very gradual changes so I could better understand every single change I was making and logging every time. I've also included a log of driving and a "WOT" event but it doesn't seem to enter OP at all which I believe were the VCT OP Enable settings.

2014 Mustang GT 93 Bolt on.4.hpt

23-04-24 17-03-51.hpl

[Ethan5.019]

Alright I've got my updated file and my log that I just took with the adjusts you suggested Murfie. I'm seeing more TPS % than I ever was before and I assume that's because my Driver Demand torque was too high and the computer was trying to limit it. I'm headed in the right direction and on this pull you can see the KR at the beginning of the pull but its smooth after that and in OP and PE.


93 bolt on stock DD TQ .5.hpl

2014 Mustang GT 93 Bolt on.5.hpt

[murfie]

Shouldn't need to do this, but take 1.5* -2* out of these spots in the borderline tables. Its just at the load peaks of all the RPMs thats making me think its not false. It is probably just false activity tho.
Or skip that and just add some octane booster and see if it goes away. If it does you had bad gas maybe try another gas station.
If it still shows activity, you need to look for something that is rattling metal to metal on the engine. Even things like small rocks that have collected in and around the motor mounts bouncing around.

Ethan.PNG

[Ethan5.019]

I'm currently testing your octane booster recommendation and I can feel a difference in my acceleration from a stop and just mild pedal probably 35%-50% load area. I'm not saying a power difference but an actual smoothness difference as I roll into the pedal. Is this normal?

**UPDATE**
I have attached the log from my ride to work and as you can see the Octane booster worked to rule out the false knock instances I was having. The car drives much smoother and is much more linear during mild acceleration.

93 bolt on stock DDTQ .6 VP Boost.hpl

[murfie]

I'm currently testing your octane booster recommendation and I can feel a difference in my acceleration from a stop and just mild pedal probably 35%-50% load area. I'm not saying a power difference but an actual smoothness difference as I roll into the pedal. Is this normal?

**UPDATE**
I have attached the log from my ride to work and as you can see the Octane booster worked to rule out the false knock instances I was having. The car drives much smoother and is much more linear during mild acceleration.

93 bolt on stock DDTQ .6 VP Boost.hpl

I'll look at the log later.

Adding octane boost can remove the 3-4* of timing being pulled out, sooner people are sensitive enough to feel this.

Of the octane booster got rid of it, it was real and not false knock. You probably got some junk fuel.

[Ethan5.019]

Once you view the log you can give me your opinion on if the fuel was that bad. I'm going to start going to a shell for my fill ups and most likely using an octane booster with every tank.

[SiriusC1024]

Once you view the log you can give me your opinion on if the fuel was that bad. I'm going to start going to a shell for my fill ups and most likely using an octane booster with every tank.

See how knock occurs at the top of 3rd and 4th during a WOT run? Could try making Power Enrichment WOT Lambda 0.8 from 5500rpm and up.

[Ethan5.019]

I made another log today of a WOT pull and I have 0 knock but I'll post the log and my tune file soon

***UPDATE***


2014 Mustang GT 93 Bolt on.8 DDTQ stock 20deg.hpt


93 bolton stock DDTQ.8 VP20deg.hpl

I've attached the log and tune file. I've also attached a screenshot below that is a little confusing but I'm going to get under the car tomorrow and inspect all the exhaust connections since everything was brand new. I think I may have heard a small exhaust leak today so I need to inspect.

Screenshot (13).png

[Ethan5.019]

I'll look at the log later.

Adding octane boost can remove the 3-4* of timing being pulled out, sooner people are sensitive enough to feel this.

Of the octane booster got rid of it, it was real and not false knock. You probably got some junk fuel.

I do have another concern that I'm feeling while normal driving. I'm attaching 2 screenshots of 2 different logs only a day apart but as you can see the MAP curve gets a little wonky at the top of one but not the other. Any insight is greatly appreciated so I can improve normal driving feel.

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Screenshot (15).png

[murfie]

I do have another concern that I'm feeling while normal driving. I'm attaching 2 screenshots of 2 different logs only a day apart but as you can see the MAP curve gets a little wonky at the top of one but not the other. Any insight is greatly appreciated so I can improve normal driving feel.

Screenshot (14).png

Screenshot (15).png

You are getting turbulent flow into the intake filter and across the MAF sensor. Some intake tubes are worst than others for dealing with this.
Cylair filter smoothes the MAF signal, then anticipation logic is used to better predict the air making it into the cylinders. Theres not a lot more you can do in the calibration. It has to be fixed physically.

[Ethan5.019]

Thank you for clearing this is because I can feel it while accelerating and it was giving me the illusion for a calibration issue. I am running the factory airbox and factory intake tube. I will inspect the filter and seal of the lid before I start driving home this morning.

[Ethan5.019]

You are getting turbulent flow into the intake filter and across the MAF sensor. Some intake tubes are worst than others for dealing with this.
Cylair filter smoothes the MAF signal, then anticipation logic is used to better predict the air making it into the cylinders. Theres not a lot more you can do in the calibration. It has to be fixed physically.

Is it possible the gen3 intake manifold increased the velocity and efficiency of the air coming across the MAF and the stock airbox might not be able to accommodate?

[Ethan5.019]

Still don't understand. I'm going to inspect all the exhaust hardware and make sure I'm not getting any contact anywhere.


Screenshot (16).png

[murfie]

Is it possible the gen3 intake manifold increased the velocity and efficiency of the air coming across the MAF and the stock airbox might not be able to accommodate?

Not at 2500-3000 RPM and 30-40% throttle.

[Ethan5.019]

Alright sorry it took so long to respond but I've inspected all the exhaust components and made sure there was no rubbing or tapping anywhere even around the engine as well. I've took a long today of some normal driving where I was having my issues before with the knock and it definitely has improved. I didn't see anything on my normal driving log so I did another log of a WOT pull and I will post it here. Everything looks good to me but now I'm asking for any guidance on getting more out of the NA setup on my GEN1. I have been looking at adding a JLT2 CAI but I know those gains a minimal. I've currently got full engine back exhaust with off road x-pipe, Gen3 intake manifold and a cooler thermostat.

93 bolton 20deg stock DDTQ.hpl

[Ethan5.019]

I'm attaching my most recent tune revision and log from my normal drive home. I put the MAF data back to stock and I haven't messed with anything else on the car. If you do take time to look over my file and log please let me know if theres anything I can work on to improve the setup with the modifications I have.

2014 Mustang GT MT82
Longtube headers, catless x-pipe, 160* thermostat, 2018+ intake manifold.

2014 Mustang GT 93 Bolt on.8 DDTQ stock 20deg LTFT off O2disable stockMAF.hpt

93 bolt on normal driving.hpl

[black mustang]

Are negative knock a problem?