L99 Camaro with E-Force MAP sensor

[Tapi]

I'm having trouble with scanning. I can't get the correct MAP sensor to show on channels. I assume E-Force has 2 bar MAP but the only option I get when I add channels, is "intake manifold absolute pressure (SAE)". I can't find the usual "2 bar MAP" and such from the available channels. The one I find, is stuck on certain reading.

The car is bone stock except for the E-force and it's knocking a bit even though there's not much advance. IAT is quite high though. There's only 55 F outside. It feels as a N/A car now, so the S/C seems to be there only for the looks.
Log and tune attached. Can you tell me is this tune built on stock Camaro 2012 base or is there something special in there?

[Alvin]

I'm having trouble with scanning. I can't get the correct MAP sensor to show on channels. I assume E-Force has 2 bar MAP but the only option I get when I add channels, is "intake manifold absolute pressure (SAE)". I can't find the usual "2 bar MAP" and such from the available channels. The one I find, is stuck on certain reading.

The car is bone stock except for the E-force and it's knocking a bit even though there's not much advance. IAT is quite high though. There's only 55 F outside. It feels as a N/A car now, so the S/C seems to be there only for the looks.
Log and tune attached. Can you tell me is this tune built on stock Camaro 2012 base or is there something special in there?

Seeing like 120-130 on any PD blower driving aroudn fully warmed up is pretty normal.

This isn't like a GEN 3 car where you need to add a 2 bar map sensor pid. The normal map sensor pid works.

It does appear that your map sensor isn't reporting right at all. It's reading the same value the entire time. I'd check the conversion harness for it as those kits usually come with an adapter harness for the map sensor.

[relicdew]

What MAP is installed, send a picture or part number. I feel like the Eforce uses the T-MAP from the LT4 engines? Not sure if that's correct or if they use the LSA MAP sensor (Red Label).

[blindsquirrel]

There are like 3 different pinouts for just the 3-pin sensors, that's not counting the 5-wire goofy ones. If it uses a different style connector it will have a different pin arrangement.

[Tapi]

Thanks. I will try to get info on this MAP sensor.
All MAP sensor related diagnostic codes are still functional and this doesn't throw a code. So the MAP must be functioning, I just cant get it to show on logs.

[Tapi]

The MAP sensor is Bosch 0 261 230 042. So it is a TMAP, right? I would like to make sure it's pinned correctly, can you guide me to the correct pinout?

[gtstorey]

Look up the map on rockauto and see if you can find the wiring diagrams and connector views for that model.

[relicdew]

Map scaling needs adjusted for the LT4 style MAP sensor. See attached picture for reference.

MAP Sensor Linear 425.00 kPa
MAP sensor Offset -32.50 kPa
LT4MapScaling.PNG

[gtstorey]

Map scaling needs adjusted for the LT4 style MAP sensor. See attached picture for reference.

MAP Sensor Linear 425.00 kPa
MAP sensor Offset -32.50 kPa
LT4MapScaling.PNG

What makes you think this is an LT4 application MAP?

[gtstorey]

A quick google search for "Bosch 0 261 230 042" turns up these two links.

https://www.bosch-motorsport.com/con...ST_1/PST_3.pdf
https://www.bosch-motorsport.com/con...ined_PST_4.pdf

Both show the pinout as being the same, so the wiring is probably the same on the MAP used. Also it looks like the temp to resistance chart is the same, so could be used to check resistance compared to temperature to confirm pinout.

This probably isn't 100% but more than likely will work.

[Alvin]

A quick google search for "Bosch 0 261 230 042" turns up these two links.

https://www.bosch-motorsport.com/con...ST_1/PST_3.pdf
https://www.bosch-motorsport.com/con...ined_PST_4.pdf

Both show the pinout as being the same, so the wiring is probably the same on the MAP used. Also it looks like the temp to resistance chart is the same, so could be used to check resistance compared to temperature to confirm pinout.

This probably isn't 100% but more than likely will work.

Be very careful. Edelbrock used like 2 maybe 3 different TMAP sensors during the evolution of these kits. All were all originally ford applications from my recollection. It gets really confusing when the customer doesn't have a base file for the supercharger they have because of this.

I don't think any of them were like LT4 sensors. To be fair though I was super heavy on the edelbrock blowers between 2010-2014ish or so. Thier popularity really seemed to fall off.

Don't forget the IAT side of the calibration too.

[relicdew]

What makes you think this is an LT4 application MAP?

Good catch, I didn't realize this MAP was for other applications and since the part has the same appearance as LT4 engines, I assumed that it was a LT4 MAP and required the LT4 MAP scaling. I've only setup a few computers with this setup and 4-way T-MAP for E38's. We used the LT4 map for reference on the base map and never heard back from anyone complaining that it was incorrect. However, since we do inform the end-user it's a "base tune for a setup/foundation file" maybe that's why we never heard back. We leave the fine tuning to someone more experienced. Since we tested on our shop engine with our LT4 MAP installed, of course it worked for us but possibly had issues for the end-user.

[pannetron]

These settings work for the T-MAP sensor that came in my E-Force kit circa 2014. Using the adapter harness supplied in the kit, the SAE MAP and IAT PIDs worked. I can't read the p/n on my sensor so YMMV.

2023-04-24_10-23-34.jpg

[gtstorey]

These settings work for the T-MAP sensor that came in my E-Force kit circa 2014. Using the adapter harness supplied in the kit, the SAE MAP and IAT PIDs worked. I can't read the p/n on my sensor so YMMV.

2023-04-24_10-23-34.jpg

Those temp settings are pretty close to what I linked on the Bosch PDF's. Not exact, but probably close enough to work.

[Tapi]

This leads me to think in my case at least the IAT side is wired correctly because I get reasonable readings. This MAP part number was given to Edelbrock when they sent the modified file for SCT device. I don't know how the SCT tune modifies the "strategy" of this ECM, so I don't know am I looking what I need to look when I read and scan this with HPT.

Anyway the problem that I cant log MAP still remains and I doubt the MAP isn't working because of no error codes.

[blindsquirrel]

I doubt the MAP isn't working because of no error codes.

That's a bad assumption to make, based on not having any data to confirm yes or no.

One of the 3 MAP pins will be the signal out, it should be ~5V with the sensor unplugged (there's a pullup resistor inside the ECM); if you backprobe that wire at the connector, that 5v should drop to a normal key-on/engine-off voltage, if the sensor is pinned correctly. And assuming the 5vref & ground aren't swapped.

If you backprobe what you think is the signal out, and apply vacuum, the voltage should go down. Apply pressure (above atmo) voltage should go up. If it goes backwards from that reference & ground are swapped. If it does anything like stay at ~5v when plugged in, or drops to near zero, then that isn't the right pin in the MAP for signal out.

[Alvin]

I doubt the MAP isn't working because of no error codes.

With blindsquirrel on this one.. I diagnose bad sensors all the time ..specifically a bad map sensor on this board this week that had no codes.

[Pekka_Perkeles]

With blindsquirrel on this one.. I diagnose bad sensors all the time ..specifically a bad map sensor on this board this week that had no codes.

I would agree especially as the car had originally a 1 bar sensor, so with 2 bar (or so) MAP sensor the PCM internal error logic (for a fault code) may not be able to catch that situation..

[Tapi]

This is sorted for now: MAP sensor harness had +5V and MAP signal in wrong pins. I switched those and now MAP signal is available. The coasting problem (which I didn't mention earlier) got away by doing this and altogether the car works quite well now. The weather here is so cold that I don't get to see the IAT problem but I will look into that when it warms. I doubt it got away at the same time.