Need help filling in the blanks for non-GM EV1 injectors

[SiriusC1024]

Is there a better way of getting the Flow Rate vs KPa table correct for a set of Bosch 0280155831 injectors from a Volvo XC90?
https://www.injectorplanet.com/produ...-volvo-9186340

So far, I've been comparing injector ratings for various LS1/LS6 Corvettes to their respective tunes. One problem I've noticed is that in the link to the website above the injector ratings don't quite match to this link that I believe to be accurate:
https://www.psiconversion.com/tech/l...more%20rows%20

For example, 12561462 is listed as a 30lb@4 bar; however, injectorplanet lists it as 24.8lb@3bar (=33.1lb@4bar).

Basically, I'm having trouble cross-referencing the values because of the discrepancy. Best I can come up with is to tune the Volvo injectors as if rated 39lb@4bar.

[mjc79]

It will all depend on what your fuel pressure is on the vehicle. This calculator will help in what your looking for as far as flow rate https://deatschwerks.com/pages/fuel-injector-calculator.

BUT,

You still need all the injector data for the injectors you want to run, otherwise you wont get anywhere.

[blindsquirrel]

If you're stuck on the easiest part, the flow rate, whatcha gonna do when it comes to the big complicated Offset & Short Pulse Adder tables?

[SiriusC1024]

Make some assumptions about the design then dial it in with trial and error. It works well enough. I was just wondering if anyone has dealt with this situation and has a precise method.

[blindsquirrel]

Yeah, folks like Banish are just trying to make it sound complicated so they can justify taking your money. WAKE UP SHEEPLE

[SiriusC1024]

That's what this guy did to it. http://www.mikenorrismotorsports.com/

He's nationally regarded as a top LS platform tuner. He literally said, "I think I have a table that'll work."

I'm just trying to see if it can be more precise. What's the problem?

[eficalibrator]

Yeah, folks like Banish are just trying to make it sound complicated so they can justify taking your money. WAKE UP SHEEPLE

It's not really that complicated (compared to the rest of the calibration), you just need to have all of the right data. Getting that data requires some specific tests OFF the vehicle, followed by specific calculations. Yes, I perform these tests professionally and also offer the equipment to shop owners for them to be able to do the same. I don't care if people ignore me (and the math), just don't come back bitching when the shortcuts don't work right.

[SiriusC1024]

The main problem is a large difference between commanded and actual AFR (as measured by wideband) at high throttle positions and WOT. This is mostly a flow rate vs kpa problem. Min pulse is an idle thing. Effect of offset, which is the mechanical delay of the solenoid between signal on and valve open, diminishes greatly as duty cycle increases.

As far as min pulse and offset how much difference can there really be? It's a Bosch injector, and the design principles behind it are more than likely very similar to injectors in the Corvettes. One thing I do know is that these injectors have an updated spray pattern for better atomization, so if anything min pulse can be reduced.

That's why I asked the question about rated flow rates. If other people would like a set of 39lb injectors for less than $100 then this is one way to go. Instead of helping me, and potentially other people, all that's been offered is non-answers and posturing just like everywhere else on this forum.

I'll give the answer to my question. The differences in rating from InjectorPlanet and GM is probably the fluid they use. InjectorPlanet uses n-heptane. GM uses who knows? It's probably something that is close to what pump gas is. The difference in ratings is due to fuel density. More mass per pulse with gasoline, basically. 1mL of heptane weighs less than 1mL of gasoline.

Thank you all, it's been great.

[eficalibrator]

OK, I'll bite...

The main problem is a large difference between commanded and actual AFR (as measured by wideband) at high throttle positions and WOT. This is mostly a flow rate vs kpa problem. Min pulse is an idle thing. Effect of offset, which is the mechanical delay of the solenoid between signal on and valve open, diminishes greatly as duty cycle increases.

As far as min pulse and offset how much difference can there really be?

I have actually tested this. A lot. The difference at idle for two injectors both claiming the same flow rate can be 40% or more. this is enough to shift your fueling from 14.7:1 all the way to less than 9:1 or more than 20:1 at idle and cruise. Read the article HERE.

I'll give the answer to my question. The differences in rating from InjectorPlanet and GM is probably the fluid they use. InjectorPlanet uses n-heptane. GM uses who knows? It's probably something that is close to what pump gas is. The difference in ratings is due to fuel density. More mass per pulse with gasoline, basically. 1mL of heptane weighs less than 1mL of gasoline.

Correcting for the gravimetric difference between N-heptane and pump gas is actually pretty easy (it's about 4%). The key issue is that the fluid needs to have the same viscosity so the the short pulse behaviors are correct. Some injector testing places use other fluids and it gives very misleading numbers for offset and short pulse adjustment compare to what will really be seen in the car.

[TheMechanic]

Why not just send them in for flow calibrations? Seems like the best way to make sure your data is dead nutz.

[Alvin]

A long time ago there was no injector data and we had to just make due.

In those day's though 42's were huge injectors. 60's were crazy big.. anything more than that was low impedance injector driver stuff.

The bigger the injector the more critical it is to get injector data.

[2xLS1]

A long time ago there was no injector data and we had to just make due.

In those day's though 42's were huge injectors. 60's were crazy big.. anything more than that was low impedance injector driver stuff.

The bigger the injector the more critical it is to get injector data.

Everyone always used Ford green top or red top or siemens deka 60s with no data other than IFR. How did we ever survive? Good thing our injector police weren't around then, huh.

[Alvin]

Everyone always used Ford green top or red top or siemens deka 60s with no data other than IFR. How did we ever survive? Good thing our injector police weren't around then, huh.

Life is a lot better with good injector data though and with as many options as we have out there I definitely get irritated when someone brings in some odd ball injector with no hope of finding even a proper flow rate for them.

Hey tuner... look at this crazy bullshit I found on ebay, or some sketchy website with a bunch of things misspelled... these are pullouts from a volvo..

[SiriusC1024]

Life is a lot better with good injector data though and with as many options as we have out there I definitely get irritated when someone brings in some odd ball injector with no hope of finding even a proper flow rate for them.

Hey tuner... look at this crazy bullshit I found on ebay, or some sketchy website with a bunch of things misspelled... these are pullouts from a volvo..

Haha I know it sounds crazy. Those Volvo injectors (really Bosch) work great though. In this case - update the flow rate, keep the rest. It's pretty simple. I'm not trying to meet an emissions target remember?

~80,000 miles, 5 years with this build. The injectors max 73% DC to make 400 whp. Cost was less than $100. Not too bad.