Tuning MAF and VVE at the Same Time

[Cringer]

i will add that into the channel list for next log, it is indeed a work in progress, taken me a few months and as far as ive gotten. I thought my vvt was disabled along with the dod?

I see DoD is disabled. However VVT is not.

[Osiris94ej]

I see DoD is disabled. However VVT is not.

What else needs changed to disable?

i found it.

[SiriusC1024]

Set Camshafts to None under the Airflow>Variable Camshaft tab.

[TheMechanic]

Just pulled a tune file from a sand buggy that was supposed to have been tuned by a dyno shop. To say the least the idle was HORRIBLE. couldn't drive it due to sand tires but I though what the heck lets get a couple of logs of it sh*tting the bed. I was going to use Cringers VVE tool for the first time to see how it works but for whatever reason it didn't show zones. MY first thought on this was to load what is supposed to be a "Stock" tune.
Specs. LS376/525 6.2 liter GM gen 4
TH400 with stand alone. Supposed to have a high stall converter but no way. Feels like totally stock stall.
Super light mid engine.
Why do I not get the zones copied over?
image24381.jpg
FIRST READ GEN 4 SAND BUGGY MAN STAND ALONE.hpt
FIRST IDLE FROM COLD RICH.hpl
SECOND IDLE IN GEAR.hpl
LS37_525 tune_stock.hpt

[GHuggins]

Probably best to watch his youtube vids. Everything you copy over has to be copied with axis. If the zones are too small it won't work, but the newest version should allow you to bypass this. Zones need to be 3 blocks square minimum for the tool to work. Make sure to use version 1.5 and watch the vid on it. Lots of nice new features in it. I've tune quite a few rock crawlers. Bet you'll have fun with that.

[TheMechanic]

I'm for sure using 1.5 and made sure to pick copy with axis. Still gives me the warning. Saw his most recent video on V2.0 but he doesn't have the step by step from the scan log so it makes it a little more difficult. Along with that not to sure about what would be the best layout for it also. Don't want to miss channels yet don't want to overload and slow the data acquisition either.
I really want to know how to use it but I am just getting some kind of mental block and the process and the final paste into the tune. He uses the "help project" and I'm trying to understand if this means it tests if it will help or whether it is a tool that is more accurate than just paste "multiply by half".
Screenshot 2023-11-23 145603.png

[GHuggins]

Once you have the data like that, use the fill in tool to carry the corrections out for the corresponding zones. If you're getting an error it's either because your zones are too small and need increasing in size or something else is going on. After all of that you can use the tool to make corrections to the VVE table until everything shapes out. You then copy that and paste into the VVE in the tune.

I'll take a look at the files you posted in a moment.

[GHuggins]

It's obvious you're not using the Dynamic channels needed cause it doesn't log anything there in my dyn graph, but trims are populating so I assume you failed the MAF as I didn't look through the channels for that. If you're getting an error it's most likely because your scanner graph isn't logging with the correct axis. All axis need to match. I just opened your idle log and the tune and plugged the tables in. It shows the correct zones and no issues for me. I didn't know V2 was public yet or is it just a youtube vid showing what's to come? AND, yeah that thing has problems - you got a lot of data just from a startup idle log However, that is good to populate normally unpopulated cells. I sometimes try to force gen V's to surge like that to populate idle cells for VE and torque data acquisition

VE tool Mechanic.jpg

[TheMechanic]

Just as a note. This is one of those GMPP E67 19259261 module kits.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-19259261

19259261.pdf

[GHuggins]

I took it a step further for these. In this one I used the auto fill and auto filled the missing cells - I just roughed it in and didn't carry over into wot any.

VE Fill in function.jpg

I then used the tool to auto calculate the new VVE table for 10 iterations (this is like making 10 logs and pasting into VVE editor then hitting calculate coefficients 10 different times)

After corrections.jpg

[Cringer]

Just pulled a tune file from a sand buggy that was supposed to have been tuned by a dyno shop. To say the least the idle was HORRIBLE. couldn't drive it due to sand tires but I though what the heck lets get a couple of logs of it sh*tting the bed. I was going to use Cringers VVE tool for the first time to see how it works but for whatever reason it didn't show zones. MY first thought on this was to load what is supposed to be a "Stock" tune.
Specs. LS376/525 6.2 liter GM gen 4
TH400 with stand alone. Supposed to have a high stall converter but no way. Feels like totally stock stall.
Super light mid engine.
Why do I not get the zones copied over?
image24381.jpg
FIRST READ GEN 4 SAND BUGGY MAN STAND ALONE.hpt
FIRST IDLE FROM COLD RICH.hpl
SECOND IDLE IN GEAR.hpl
LS37_525 tune_stock.hpt

I wish you success in using this method!

First, watch this vid, or don't lol...but you need to grab the formulas linked in the video description. Look at the channels being logged and ensure they are all added to your channel list. Same thing for the filters. Then collect the logs and go slow and steady on the throttle pedal.

In the VVE Assistant Tool, you have to import the zones:
In the Menu, View > Define Zones (or use the keyboard, CTRL + D on the keyboard)
In the HPT Editor, open the Virtual VE table
Change the VE mode (manifold open, non-DOD, or whatever you want)
Click the box to show Zones
Then select all, copy with axis, then paste into the VVE Assistant tool
Then Save

It is important that you setup the column and axis definitions perfectly the same between the Editor and the Scanner (for the histo results) in order for this tool to work. Version 2.0 does not have this requirement. But for now, you need to be a stickler for details.

The process for importing zones is covered here at 0:27 - 1:07

[GHuggins]

Is 2.0 out now or still getting some touch up?

[TheMechanic]

Thanks to both of you. Cringer you have done great work. I hope that I didn't come across in any way disparaging you process/VVE tool. This particular vehicle might not be the best to use for your tool as I may or may not have the opportunity to even drive it. Customer states it runs great but the idle is bad. I would personally say the idle is horrible. The stock feeling stall I'm sure doesn't help along with a stand alone auto. Anyways once I get a good idle I'm done. I truly think I might be able to fix it by just changing back to a factory loading or I've read hear on the forum that swapping the OS with the 430 horsepower OS allows certain tables to be revealed. I will keep watching the video until I get it. That is for sure.

[Cringer]

Is 2.0 out now or still getting some touch up?

No it is not out. Just did a quick sneak peak the other day. Although the screen recorder didn't record a few other windows/info that popped up.
https://youtu.be/OCPeJ1KDV9Y?si=LjxK_8OSLCbsA8Y7

[TheMechanic]

I wish you success in using this method!

First, watch this vid, or don't lol...but you need to grab the formulas linked in the video description. Look at the channels being logged and ensure they are all added to your channel list. Same thing for the filters. Then collect the logs and go slow and steady on the throttle pedal.

In the VVE Assistant Tool, you have to import the zones:
In the Menu, View > Define Zones (or use the keyboard, CTRL + D on the keyboard)
In the HPT Editor, open the Virtual VE table
Change the VE mode (manifold open, non-DOD, or whatever you want)
Click the box to show Zones
Then select all, copy with axis, then paste into the VVE Assistant tool
Then Save

It is important that you setup the column and axis definitions perfectly the same between the Editor and the Scanner (for the histo results) in order for this tool to work. Version 2.0 does not have this requirement. But for now, you need to be a stickler for details.

The process for importing zones is covered here at 0:27 - 1:07

What is the purpose/use of changing the manifold switch from open to closed or vise versa? I get the DOD.

[GHuggins]

Open = Intake manifold runner controllers open (your traditional intake manifold that doesn't have them too)
Closed = Intake manifold runner controllers closed running in long runner setup (don't know of a gm vehicle using this)

Stock VE tables for that engine are WAY wrong. Every one I've ever tuned was. You have to use the factory rpm setting for idle as the background rpm controls are what's different in these. You can up the rpm a little, but I don't recommend much. You can shoot me an email if you need any help with it. I'm honestly surprised it's surging. Might be right on putting in stock tables and trying it.

[GHuggins]

No it is not out. Just did a quick sneak peak the other day. Although the screen recorder didn't record a few other windows/info that popped up.
https://youtu.be/OCPeJ1KDV9Y?si=LjxK_8OSLCbsA8Y7

Still needs vertical and horizontal smoothing and for the shaping have it to where you can click on the 3d pic and drag cells up or down. That's the way I shape it in the editor like what you're talking about

I also assume you can change cam positions and apply errors to those new positions?

[TheMechanic]

I actually want to lower the idle speed a little. It is really pushing due to a low stall converter. Told him he needs a higher stall but he doesn't want to. Figure I will get the idle right and that's it. It surges even in neutral so bad it runs to about 1,500 and down to 350 or so. Really feels like it will stall all the time. Was actaully thinking maybe locking in the timing. Seems like it is spiking as RPM changes.

[GHuggins]

Make sure your fuel pressure is good. I've only had two of these that didn't idle right. One had the MAF right after an elbow and on top of that, the fuel supply was dropping out due to pump and tank location. New better fuel system and a lot of MAF tuning took care of it. The other was a rock crawler and the guy had put some lead additive in it by mistake. Clogged his 3 filters including jamming the regulator in the final filter and caused some sticking issues with his injectors. New filters, system flush and running some stuff through his injectors and it was back going good. Just saying cause it's a sand buggy.

Idle setting in the stock cal will be as low as you will be able to or want to go. Stock stall should handle that unless the stator in the converter is bad. Been seeing that lately with cheapo converters... These motors run really good even in their stock configuration with injection timing and other changes. I often have to detune them for customers after they drive them with a good tune in the old Ford bodies especially cause they get a wee bit scary when you stomp them doing 50 or 60 and it still wants to work the rear end around. Now do a LT swap with a 10sp in a heavier older car with good suspension and brakes and they really haul

[Cringer]

What is the purpose/use of changing the manifold switch from open to closed or vise versa? I get the DOD.

There are 4 modes. Each mode pulls from its own unique pool of coefficients from the available 15 tables for VVE. Most Gen 4 stuff only uses the Manifold Open option. I believe there were a few trucks that came with a variable switch/door that opened in the manifold to change plenum volume or something. And since most people disable DoD...that kinda only leaves one option...manifold switch open, non-DOD.

modes.jpg