Tuning MAF and VVE at the Same Time

[hjtrbo]

I'll give it a try. I would recommend using a higher temp filter for coolant for anyone using it on multiple platforms. Just another one that jumped out. Have to plug in to see the rest .

Got you covered bro, oil temp > 80degC

[hjtrbo]

Have you changed your open loop filters too?

Slight tweak, I'll post them later. Gotta remember what I did with these and write up a proper explanation

[07GTS]

are these filters easy enough to use with a cruze turbo that has pressure ratio instead of map for the vve ?

[hjtrbo]

are these filters easy enough to use with a cruze turbo that has pressure ratio instead of map for the vve ?

Hey cuz, I can't see why not. Cracking up you still got that thing. Such a contrast to your built and blown VE.

[GHuggins]

50017.241 is Engine Oil Temp in Celsius and 6215.241 is Injector Temp Temp in Celsius for me.

Yep, I honestly just saw the greater than 80 Celsius value and figured it was coolant temp. Commented too early. If it's not in there it needs the coolant temp added. Would think it would be better than oil temp as that's calculated and I'm not sure if it's available on every platform?, but don't know.... Been reading up on torque calcs using throttle body air mass and had my attention prioritized there Also reading up on some confirming VE representation. Lots of scientific papers and patents on it since 2019.......

[07GTS]

Hey cuz, I can't see why not. Cracking up you still got that thing. Such a contrast to your built and blown VE.

im just a normal bloke with a little cruze daylie none the wiser

[hjtrbo]

im just a normal bloke with a little cruze daylie none the wiser

Your Cruze will leave my 2007 Mazda 3 in the weeds. You still got it on E85?

[07GTS]

Your Cruze will leave my 2007 Mazda 3 in the weeds. You still got it on E85?

nope had to go back to e10, coudnt find any way to get flex sensor on it cos its the 1.6 turbo only Australia got with different ecu, but it was shocking economy on e85 cruising around cos of the 8.8 compression way too low for ethanol but was good on boost tho, strange tho the e10 is actually better then straight petrol economy and cheaper

[hjtrbo]

nope had to go back to e10, coudnt find any way to get flex sensor on it cos its the 1.6 turbo only Australia got with different ecu, but it was shocking economy on e85 cruising around cos of the 8.8 compression way too low for ethanol but was good on boost tho, strange tho the e10 is actually better then straight petrol economy and cheaper

Unreal man, least you found it's happy place .

I'm balls deep in my Falcon XR6T at the moment following building the motor. High comp on 98 is being a right bitch. Every extra pound of boost into her at mild IAT's and the knock ears light straight up. Not even close to fucking with the cams yet on a steady state dyno. She's a lot of work just to get a mid 300rwkw base tune before I switch fuels.

[07GTS]

Unreal man, least you found it's happy place .

I'm balls deep in my Falcon XR6T at the moment following building the motor. High comp on 98 is being a right bitch. Every extra pound of boost into her at mild IAT's and the knock ears light straight up. Not even close to fucking with the cams yet on a steady state dyno. She's a lot of work just to get a mid 300rwkw base tune before I switch fuels.

yep same on my new build i was wanting a good base on petrol but since i built it for ethanol it dosnt like petrol too much, soon as i hit 6k i got knock so tried some 7 heat range plugs was 6 and actually helped but then bout 5500 in 4th got knock again, boost is up there tho so prob past the petrol on a 30c day limit, so ill run it thru a bit more and then next fill ill just go to ethanol as we have a pump now so much easier then barrels, it already is showing signs of surpassing the power of old engine so should be fun, yours will be fun with those cams

[hjtrbo]

Been reading up on torque calcs using throttle body air mass and had my attention prioritized there Also reading up on some confirming VE representation. Lots of scientific papers and patents on it since 2019.......

ooh, nice way to keep the brain ticking right there.

If it's not in there it needs the coolant temp added. Would think it would be better than oil temp as that's calculated and I'm not sure if it's available on every platform?, but don't know

Thanks, yes that is a better idea. Only some have the sensor.

[hjtrbo]

yep same on my new build i was wanting a good base on petrol but since i built it for ethanol it dosnt like petrol too much, soon as i hit 6k i got knock so tried some 7 heat range plugs was 6 and actually helped but then bout 5500 in 4th got knock again, boost is up there tho so prob past the petrol on a 30c day limit, so ill run it thru a bit more and then next fill ill just go to ethanol as we have a pump now so much easier then barrels, it already is showing signs of surpassing the power of old engine so should be fun, yours will be fun with those cams

What are your thoughts on a meth injected blower spacer for your build to keep it happy on 98? No bother with fuel corrections, just for use as a straight octane booster???

[07GTS]

What are your thoughts on a meth injected blower spacer for your build to keep it happy on 98? No bother with fuel corrections, just for use as a straight octane booster???

i was only really using petrol as a last resort as was mainly for ethanol but i did want to see a good power run on petrol just for comparison but not going to waste the dyno run ill just go straight to the good stuff, i was going to run some toluene with petrol but then have to mix all the time for knock resistance, thought about a meth kit but damn they are not cheap no for a good one and more complexity when i can just use ethanol

[hjtrbo]

Yeah makes sense man. And it smells better. I was mucking around with injection timing and missed the smell so undid the changes. Was getting 5-7% better economy but not worth it. You getting your e85 from Winton?

[07GTS]

Yeah makes sense man. And it smells better. I was mucking around with injection timing and missed the smell so undid the changes. Was getting 5-7% better economy but not worth it. You getting your e85 from Winton?

nope year or two ago we got a new united on the way into town and they put a e85 pump there for us so im all good now, i use to get barrels from the cheetah race fuels down in melb but they dont deliver so was pain to pick em up, 4 x 200L drums in the back of a ford ranger...

[Allen Vos]

Hear ye, hear ye

I've made a minor adjustment to my filters that are included in this method. I have been using these for the past 6 months. Whilst not 100% perfect, they capture more fringe area steady state data which over the course of a decent street tune session produces a smoother grouping of error values. In my opinion the new filters are superior. I've added extra conditions to allow the VVE table to capture coasting events hence the split up of the filters.

My old closed loop filter
CL: [2517.161.avg(1500)]=0 and [2517.161.avg(-200)]=0 and (abs([50090.156.slope(1500)])+abs([50090.156.slope(-500)]))<2 and ([6310]=9 OR [6310]=14 OR [6310]=15)=0

My New VE Table Filter
CL: [50017.241]>80 and [2320.71.slope(-500)]<4 and [2320.71.slope(-500)]>-6 and [2320.71.slope(-1500)]<999 and[2320.71.slope(-1500)]>-999 and [2320.71.slope(500)]<8 and [2320.71.slope(500)]>-4 and [2320.71.slope(1500)]<999 and [2320.71.slope(1500)]>-18 and [6215.241]<60 and [2517.161.avg(500)]=0 and [2517.161.avg(-500)]=0 and ([6310]=7 and [6310.slope(2000)]>0.1)=0 and ([6310]=9 OR [6310]=14 OR [6310]=15)=0 and [50072.slope(2000)]<0.1 and [50072.slope(-2000)]<0.1

My New MAF Table Filter
CL: [50017.241]>80 and [2320.71.slope(-500)]<4 and [2320.71.slope(-500)]>-6 and [2320.71.slope(-1500)]<999 and[2320.71.slope(-1500)]>-999 and [2320.71.slope(500)]<8 and [2320.71.slope(500)]>-4 and [2320.71.slope(1500)]<999 and [2320.71.slope(1500)]>-18 and [6215.241]<60 and [2517.161.avg(500)]=0 and [2517.161.avg(-500)]=0 and ([6310]=7 OR [6310]=9 OR [6310]=14 OR [6310]=15)=0 and [50072.slope(2000)]<0.1 and [50072.slope(-2000)]<0.1

Same random old large assed data log
OLD FILTER


NEW FILTER


60% INCREASE IN CAPTURED DATA!!!

So just to clarify you are using these Cringer Math formulas and just updated the filters?

MAF CL
(([2320.71]+([2320.71]*([50116.156]+[50114.156])/100))-[50040.71])/[50040.71]*100


MAF PE* for Lambda
(([2320.71]+([2320.71]*([50119.238]-[50118.238])/[50118.238]))-[50040.71])/[50040.71]*100


MAF PE for AFR
(([2320.71]+([2320.71]*(([50120]-[50121])/[50121]))-[16.71])/[16.71]*100




VVE CL
(([2320.71]+([2320.71]*([50116.156]+[50114.156])/100))-[2311.71])/[2311.71]*100


VVE PE* for Lambda
(([2320.71]+([2320.71]*([50119.238]-[50118.238])/[50118.238]))-[2311.71])/[2311.71]*100


VVE PE for AFR
(([2320.71]+([2320.71]*(([50120]-[50121])/[50121]))-[2311.71])/[2311.71]*100

[Filters to use in Scanner to get rid of transients and CL/PE]

CL: [2517.161.avg(1500)]=0 and [2517.161.avg(-200)]=0 and (abs([50090.156.slope(1500)])+abs([50090.156.slope(-500)]))<2 and ([6310]=9 OR [6310]=14 OR [6310]=15)=0

PE: [2517.161.avg(1500)]=0 and [2517.161.avg(-200)]=0 and (abs([50090.156.slope(250)])+abs([50090.156.slope(-250)]))<2 and [6310.avg(250)]=9

I have been using this method for a bit of idle and off idle logging and found it works pretty good. The one thing I had to do was disable LTFT otherwise I had some skewed data. But once I did that I very quickly got within a few percent. I should try these new filters you posted, they look like they will make things better for sure.

Looking forward to trying out Cringers VVE tool as well

[hjtrbo]

I'm not using those formulas, I use smokeshow's. But don't be side tracked by what I'm up to. For you and your setup follow closely Cringers formulas, methods, videos and tools and you will have the gold ticket. You can try the old and new filters to see what you reckon works best for you.

[Allen Vos]

I'm not using those formulas, I use smokeshow's. But don't be side tracked by what I'm up to. For you and your setup follow closely Cringers formulas, methods, videos and tools and you will have the gold ticket. You can try the old and new filters to see what you reckon works best for you.

Ha ha , I'm just being nosey.

I seen this and thought, Damn!! there's an even better way, so I was all over that lol

Anything to make tuning easier, right?

What does Mr. Cringer think about these filters?

[Cringer]

Ha ha , I'm just being nosey.

I seen this and thought, Damn!! there's an even better way, so I was all over that lol

Anything to make tuning easier, right?

What does Mr. Cringer think about these filters?

I have not used them yet, but if hjtrbo created them, then rest assured they are legit. I have been meaning to apply them to some logs to do a side by side comparison to see what is revealed.

BTW the reason why he uses the GMVE method is due to (1) the defect in the HPT scanner that limits the MAF and VVE values and (2) "I've only ever tuned boosted."

[Allen Vos]

I have not used them yet, but if hjtrbo created them, then rest assured they are legit. I have been meaning to apply them to some logs to do a side by side comparison to see what is revealed.

BTW the reason why he uses the GMVE method is due to (1) the defect in the HPT scanner that limits the MAF and VVE values and (2) "I've only ever tuned boosted."

Once spring hits , I would like to do the same. I thought about trying the smoke show method just for shits and giggles but your method works really good and makes sense to boot.

Once I get up and running and a bit more experience I'm sure Ill try.