430HP LS3 Crate Engine in C5 Base Tune

[stevensa]

Hello,

I am in the process of swapping a new 430hp crate LS3 into a 2002 C5 Z06 to replace a failed LS6. I have searched this forum and the tune repository for a base tune to load into the C5 PCM to get me started, but I am having trouble finding what a need?

Does anyone have a clean tune file that I can start with?

LS3 430HP Crate Engine
LS3 Intake, Fuel Injectors and Throttle Body
LS3 MAP
24x to 58x conversion box
Stock returnless C5 fuel system

Thank you in advance. Hoping to get something solid to start with.


UPDATE: I have now completed this tune. Attached is the file and the dyno graph, thanks to all that helped out. This is a SD tune and the VE table / PE Table match almost dead on. Drives great, idles well, starts well, etc. Hopefully this will be valuable to someone in the future.

[Alvin]

Its going to be hard to find a file exactly for that setup in a 2002 Z06. Even if you did would you trust it?

Start with your OEM file and update things like the map sensor calibration, injector data, displacement, etc.. That should get you running. Then tune it like any other LS setup.t

[stevensa]

Its going to be hard to find a file exactly for that setup in a 2002 Z06. Even if you did would you trust it?

Start with your OEM file and update things like the map sensor calibration, injector data, displacement, etc.. That should get you running. Then tune it like any other LS setup.t

Right, that is exactly what I am trying to find, reliable calibration info for map sensor, injector data, etc. that I can work from. I don't need a turnkey tune, just something that will start in the right direction. Really trying to avoid chasing my tail with guess and check tuning. I have read about 30 different threads now and can't seem to find any consistent information on what I thought was standard information such as OEM LS3 injector info. ETC tables and scaling for the LS3 TB also seem to be all over the place. I believe I have found generally accepted MAP sensor info, but again, some conflicting info out there for that too.

[blindsquirrel]

The correct data for things like MAP sensors and injectors can be found in stock files from the vehicles that used those parts! If you ask for that info here, and someone replies and gives it to you, that just means that someone else went and found the file and looked up the numbers for you. You can just as easily do that yourself and skip the middleman. There are stock files in the repository, and lots of parts websites have reverse lookups where you can put in some random number and find out what vehicles used it, so you know what to look for in the repository. (https://www.rockauto.com/en/partsearch/)

Doing injector conversions from a different format is rather more advanced, but if you post an actual injector part number, chances are someone here already has a file with the converted data in it (ahem), and you can simply use the 'compare' feature and copy all the data into your file.

However... to do that, you still need to provide more info. Injector data depends on the fuel system type and base fuel pressure. None of that has been mentioned.

[gtstorey]

Will an LS3 throttle body work with a C5 accelerator pedal or did that get swapped?

[stevensa]

The correct data for things like MAP sensors and injectors can be found in stock files from the vehicles that used those parts! If you ask for that info here, and someone replies and gives it to you, that just means that someone else went and found the file and looked up the numbers for you. You can just as easily do that yourself and skip the middleman. There are stock files in the repository, and lots of parts websites have reverse lookups where you can put in some random number and find out what vehicles used it, so you know what to look for in the repository. (https://www.rockauto.com/en/partsearch/)

Doing injector conversions from a different format is rather more advanced, but if you post an actual injector part number, chances are someone here already has a file with the converted data in it (ahem), and you can simply use the 'compare' feature and copy all the data into your file.

However... to do that, you still need to provide more info. Injector data depends on the fuel system type and base fuel pressure. None of that has been mentioned.

Stock LS3 fuel injectors, stock c5 fuel system including the 58psi pressure regulator built into the filter.

Maybe I am reading the text incorrectly, but I am sensing some hostility for asking this question and gathering that this is very much a "figure it out yourself" community now? Admittedly it has been a while since I did any extensive tuning, and that was primarily back in 2005-2011 with turbo Honda's, but at that time we had a pretty reliable database full of injector info, map sensor settings, boost solenoid configurations, etc that were relevant at the time. Heck, a lot of the tuning software had this info pre-loaded into drop down menus for creating base maps.

I guess I just expected that a super common crate engine swap into a very common platform would have readily available info without being told to search on RockAuto to back trace parts.

[stevensa]

Will an LS3 throttle body work with a C5 accelerator pedal or did that get swapped?

This is another item that has LOADS of conflicting info, however I have gathered that with the correct ETC settings, it will indeed work reliably. Guess I will find out in due time.

[blindsquirrel]

Shit, my bad. I should be more helpful. I forget that lots of people do not want to learn anything, like HOW to solve problems, they only want the instant gratification. Gimme-gimme-gimme.

LS3 MAP linear = 128.13, offset = -0.31

Here is a file with LS3 injector data converted to Gen3 format.
Gen3 12576341.hpt

Open your file, open this file in Compare, go to Comparison Log, right click on Injector Control, and Copy Over Selected Differences.

screenshot.12-12-2022 15.52.01.png

If you had posted your file I could have done this for you and re-posted it. But you did not even make the effort to post your file. So here you go. Sorry to have slowed you down in your quest.

[blindsquirrel]

Forgot to add, that sample file is in 58psi, non-referenced ('returnless'). If you'd had a different type or different base pressure I would have posted the file with correct data for that, too. It only takes about 20 minutes per conversion. You're welcome.

[stevensa]

Forgot to add, that sample file is in 58psi, non-referenced ('returnless'). If you'd had a different type or different base pressure I would have posted the file with correct data for that, too. It only takes about 20 minutes per conversion. You're welcome.

Thank you, I do appreciate your response and information. I do not expect anyone to build a file for me, I am just looking for accurate information to start from.

Although it may seem like I am looking for instant gratification, it is far from the opposite. I did not post any files, because I simply do not have them in front of me. I literally will not even be on the same continent as the car until the end of the year, and then I still need to physically install the engine. I made this post today, to hopefully start gathering accurate information so that I can work the tune offline, hoping that I have something ready when the car is mechanically ready.

Again, thank you for the information. The MAP values match what I "thought" was the most reliable information (although I have read the Gen 3 pcm offset cant be below 0?). I will check out the injector file as well once I have access to my tuning laptop.

[blindsquirrel]

The Gen4 (well, Gen3.5) E40 is the only one I know of that can't take a negative offset. MAP data taken from a stock Camaro LS3/L98 file.

[blindsquirrel]

Throttle body interchange/compatibility is gonna be determined by the TAC module... which isn't accessible in HPT, not part of the PCM. There are things like the X-Link but those are nothing but trouble, in my opinion. How do you diagnose it when it goes wrong? Do you use the manual for the original vehicle, or the manual for whatever the TB is from? Some combination of both? Or neither? Does X-Link provide diag info for their little box thing? No, not really. You're on your own when it screws up or doesn't work right out of the box. I hate shit like that.

[stevensa]

Throttle body interchange/compatibility is gonna be determined by the TAC module... which isn't accessible in HPT, not part of the PCM. There are things like the X-Link but those are nothing but trouble, in my opinion. How do you diagnose it when it goes wrong? Do you use the manual for the original vehicle, or the manual for whatever the TB is from? Some combination of both? Or neither? Does X-Link provide diag info for their little box thing? No, not really. You're on your own when it screws up or doesn't work right out of the box. I hate shit like that.

Yeah it seems to be a pretty hot topic. As I am sure you have seen, you can read just about every extreme out there when it comes to what is compatible with what. I have gathered now from a few different threads and a few videos that the LS3 gold blade will indeed work with the C5 TAC, you just need to limit the max throttle angle rotation to avoid a code and REP. It seems when set to 100%, the blade will actually over rotate and freak out the TPS sensor signals. Opinions vary here on what the max correct value is, but it seems they all work ok once you find it.

For me the TBW is a necessary evil, this is for a road course car that is HP restricted depending on class. Honestly outside of the last full tune I did on the previous engine in 2014, the only dyno time the car got was TBW tuning for compliance classing. In my case with this LS3, I expect the throttle to start closing around 4500rpm, and hold at ~50% from there. As you can imagine there is a sweet spot because as throttle angle changes the flowby area change is not linear.

In general, the C5 TAC is more user friendly when it comes to controlling reduced max throttle rotation vs. the C6 which is a totally different setup, it can just be a pain getting started.

Again, thank you for the information. Eventually when I get this tune sorted out, dynoed, etc I will post it in the thread for anyone else in the future.

[Alvin]

A silver "early" throttle body for LS2 cars would guaranted work on your setup. My experience with the gold blades on earlier cars is they work for a few weeks before throwing some sort of throttle body code. Maybe yours won't.. but you know what to expect if you do see it.

[DougO]

I have a stock connect and cruise 525 tune file

[blindsquirrel]

I have stock files for a bunch of irrelevant Gen4 cars, hit me up on Snapchat I'll send you a link to my Dropbox.

[stevensa]

Alright, once again I appreciate the guidance provided in this thread. I was able to install the 430hp GM LS3 Crate engine into my C5 and get it started. I have provided the base tune file that I used to get it going. It fired up within about 3 seconds of cranking the first time and overall ran great. Idles strong, no stalling, etc.

Please note that this is nowhere near a complete tune. It will start/idle/rev and drive around just fine, but I still need to clean it up and ultimately get it to the dyno to properly tune everything.

This is in a racecar, no emissions equipment, no stock 02 sensors, no MAF. It's a very simple SD tune. I wanted to post it up though now, in case anyone else is out there in the same boat just looking for a place to start.

The only issue that I am having with it is getting the idle A/F a bit leaner. It's around 13.0:1 right now, but no matter what I do with the VE table the injector pulse bottoms out at 2.5ms. I am not sure what is preventing it from going lower yet and won't be back working on the car until Mid-Feb, but curious if anyone knows of any obvious places to start.

[blindsquirrel]

You didn't copy in all the injector data, you only got the one Injector Flow Rate table. There's a picture showing how to use the Compare feature to do this with just a few clicks in post #8.

[stevensa]

You didn't copy in all the injector data, you only got the one Injector Flow Rate table. There's a picture showing how to use the Compare feature to do this with just a few clicks in post #8.

Dang, sounds like a case of too many reference files going at once and totally missed it. Thanks for checking. Guessing something critical in there that I missed? Min Injector Pulse limit or something with the short pulse adder?

Man I wish I had a computer to open these tunes on right now!

[stevensa]

You didn't copy in all the injector data, you only got the one Injector Flow Rate table. There's a picture showing how to use the Compare feature to do this with just a few clicks in post #8.

Was able to have a friend open up the tune file for me on his computer where I could view the screen remotely, I see what the problem is now. You are right, copying all of the tables over should sort it out. Thanks again for the help.

Hopefully sometime early March after I am back home I should be able to do all of the dyno tuning and complete this tune for anyone else who may need it.