having trouble adjusting timing

Hello, im in the process of tuning a 2013 f150 with a 5.0. Truck is totally stock but customer wants a little more power out of it without mods. I am basically new to ford tuning and i come from a GM background.

However im trying to add timing to it and it just doesnt work but the main problem is i don't fully understand all the timing tables. What i did was add timing(about 6 degress) to all the 17 borderline knock tables and also added timing to all the 16 MBT spark tables(also 6 degrees) and the result i got was no more timing. I then lowered the BLK tables to stock and left the MBT tables at the 6 more degrees and i got 3-4 more degrees resulting in 28-29 total timing. I then added more timing to the MBT tables and left the current tune at 21 more degrees over stock which didnt give more timing then 3-4 total degrees over stock.

My question is which is the main timing table and were do i need to add values to gain more timing? I heard people leaving the MBT tables stock but that didnt give me any better results. Also what are the "optimum power" tables under BLK spark and MBT spark?

The problem is commanding more then 28-29 degrees of timing might be a little too much.

There are adders and subtractors for timing as per the Variable Cam position.

Are you logging any knock?

Borderline should be the main table your after there. Something I've noticed in tuning a friends Mustang here is smoothing those timing tables, all of them, made for a much smoother accel and overall feel to the car. Seat of the pants I could just feel it was not right, figured Id give smoothing their tables a shot and see how it felt. Well the result was really good, worth taking the time to do it imo

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Originally Posted by Trailblazin'

The problem is commanding more then 28-29 degrees of timing might be a little too much.

There are adders and subtractors for timing as per the Variable Cam position.

Are you logging any knock?

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Was logging -2 degrees knock at WOT but why would it read -120 something degrees knock at part throttle?

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Originally Posted by MMGT1

Borderline should be the main table your after there. Something I've noticed in tuning a friends Mustang here is smoothing those timing tables, all of them, made for a much smoother accel and overall feel to the car. Seat of the pants I could just feel it was not right, figured Id give smoothing their tables a shot and see how it felt. Well the result was really good, worth taking the time to do it imo

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Okay, ill see what i can do. Are you just smoothing them with the tool hpt has or are you smoothing manually?

Also why does it have all the mapped points? Do they have something to do with the variable cam?

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Originally Posted by askkmb

Also why does it have all the mapped points? Do they have something to do with the variable cam?

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Yes, each Mapped Point has a intake and exhaust cam position associated with it. So for Mapped Point, the Spark, Torque, and VE will vary.

Okay got it. Also how do you adjust optimum power to come on sooner? Here is the stock tune:Attachment 48439

what fuel you are running, thats alot of timing

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Originally Posted by SultanHassanMasTuning

what fuel you are running, thats alot of timing

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87 octane but im at 6000 feet above sea level so i usually run more timing then someone would at lower altitude. But this is only about 4 degrees above stock.

how is your "engine Load" readings

Ill get a log on here soon.