New to Tuning. Current setup on 12 SS camaro with Twin Turbos.

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Originally Posted by edcmat-l1

Yeah, I don't think it works that way. It's not a boost a pump. Setting that table to 14 does not mean you're applying 14 volts to the pump.

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You're wrong and you're correct.

There are applications that will benefit from higher alternator voltage output. The OP's application is one of those applications that benefits from tweaking this table.
Back in the day I had a turbocharged 2012 Camaro SS that needed just a bit more fuel flow from the ZL1 pump. The SS models only command 12.5V at WOT. Just increasing the voltage to 14.5V at WOT got the job done. The higher voltage definitely helped the fuel pressure stability. Eventually, I installed an aux fuel pump and turned up the boost.

I've used the same tweaks on several vehicles over the years with good results.

However, there are some applications, that just don't seem to help as much. Sometimes the alternator just can't keep up. You might command a voltage output that it can't produce. I had a 2015 ZL1 on the dyno this evening. (Tuned by another shop.) It made 13 psi boost max. It was very lean on the first pull. Around 14:1 AF ratio at 5700 rpm. The fuel pressure was dropping to 41 psi at that same rpm. The factory voltage output on it was already 14.5V. I could get it to go up to 15.25V. That had minimal affect on the fuel pressure. I made a couple pulls, and could only maintain 12.8:1 AF ratio above 6K rpm.

There are a few tuners that I've talked to that utilize the voltage output table as well. I haven't seen very much talk on the forums of it.

Here's a good video that Matt Sanford released that actually quantifies the results of tuning the voltage table and FSCM tables.

https://youtu.be/RfK-1e2kAl4?si=8E8yPAXhVZCqzdAE

As far as the FIC data, you may have to email them to get the data. I had a laptop crash a few weeks ago and lost much of that info.

https://fuelinjectorconnection.com/pages/injector-data

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KalCorp

How would i get the FIC data for 850 decapped LS3 injectors ?

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Idk which FIC. Clinic or Connection. I believe this is the injector to which they're referring:
https://fuelinjectorclinic.com/IS303-0850H

If so, then here's the data:
https://fuelinjectorclinic.com/HP-TUNERS-0850

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kevin87turbot

Here's a good video that Matt Sanford released that actually quantifies the results of tuning the voltage table and FSCM tables.

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I didnt get a credit for FSCM yet. Didnt know if i needed to change anything in that. looks like i might need to change something in that so i will get that and add to the tune.
Also got the Data sheet! thanks so much!. just wanted to make it stable as much as i can now and then look into getting better in future.


Also anyone know what channels should i be monitoring? I thought these should be a good start? anything i am missing i should add that can help?

RPM
Coolant Temp
MAF counts
MAF Flow #s
Inlet Air Temp
Downstream Air Temp
STFT
LTFT
Pressure Drop Across the Injectors (fuel rail pressure)
Fuel Pump Duty Cycle
Spark
Battery Voltage
TPS counts or voltage
Throttle Position sensor
Load


And thanks for info!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kevin87turbot

That was a good guess Alvin. I worked at FAST for over 23 years before I began my full-time tuning career. I was there back in the day when it was still FP Electronics.

I can confirm that the 30857-8 injectors would be comparable to the FIC 850 decapped LS3 injectors. The FIC data will work nicely.

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Thanks for that.

For what I can see, the injectors are about what I need. Now, tuning settings are a different thing and the next step.

INJ Size #/hr x #INJ's / [NA:.50 FI:.65] x INJ DC .80 = Crank HP

(85 x 8 ) / .65 = 1046 X .80 = 837

So, these should be able to handle 837 Crank HP if needed. Is my math correct?

NOTE: I was told when it was set up it was just shy of 800.

should i set the Rail pressure Min from 21.8psi to 58psi? should it ever need under 58?

Well damn looks like I learnt somethin today.

Fuel pressure still has issues and can't keep up. I'm planning to change to 15v, but I was told that's the maximum for this setup. Should I just get a new pump? Is it really needed? It's not like I will be over 6k RPM all the time.

Attachment 140233

Here is a log with a quick WOT; PSI still sticks. I guess I need to upgrade. What does anyone recommend to maintain 58psi and up with 85-95 injectors all the time?

Anything else in the log anyone can see? WOT in 4, but when down to 3 and back to 4.
Attachment 140231
Quick highway run. Too much traffic :-(
Attachment 140232
Tune used Attachment 140237


Tune and Logs v2.01 added to first posting also.

Trying to run this off of higher voltage at the very edge of what the alternator will produce just seems like a bad idea. What happens when the alternator can't keep up as it ages or in times of additional high load. Does that change even adjust what the alternator is being told to put out?

It depends on how much of a gambler you are. How many times of going over 6000 rpm will it take before it happens to go just lean enough to go BOOM? No one can really say. If it was me, I wouldn't even drive the car without upgrading the pump.

A BAP will take that pump pretty far.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alvin

A BAP will take that pump pretty far.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by gtstorey

Trying to run this off of higher voltage at the very edge of what the alternator will produce just seems like a bad idea. What happens when the alternator can't keep up as it ages or in times of additional high load. Does that change even adjust what the alternator is being told to put out?
It depends on how much of a gambler you are. How many times of going over 6000 rpm will it take before it happens to go just lean enough to go BOOM? No one can really say. If it was me, I wouldn't even drive the car without upgrading the pump.

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Its been like this for over 5 years and never had any issues just driving around and haveing fun. I dont race it. But now that i know its not right i will fix it.

A Boost a Pumps was the next step. that let me get up to 17v if needed. Thanks!

Pump may have weakened in 5 years. That's the problem with running on the edge, no room for problems.

I just reviewed the Data for the injectors that poeple said to do since mine looked stock.

Attachment 140243 <--- Yes its in the damn little pic you got to click on lol

Its defently not stock But not has high as the https://fuelinjectorclinic.com/IS303-0850H one.

Dont know if i should leave as-is or bump up to the 850H. i know if i change it i will have problem until i get new Pump or booster. and i would think alot more settings would need to be changed.

I was going to get boster and then try to stablelize what i have now to learn more about it before changing this? or do i need to do this before tring to tune it correctly after?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kevin87turbot

Here's a good video that Matt Sanford released that actually quantifies the results of tuning the voltage table and FSCM tables.
https://youtu.be/RfK-1e2kAl4?si=8E8yPAXhVZCqzdAE
As far as the FIC data, you may have to email them to get the data. I had a laptop crash a few weeks ago and lost much of that info.
https://fuelinjectorconnection.com/pages/injector-data

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Thanks. So far the video is Flexfuel stuff. but its a long video.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gtstorey

Pump may have weakened in 5 years. That's the problem with running on the edge, no room for problems.

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Agree. i will look into the Boost a pump. people say its workd good with the ZL1 pump. but depending on price might just get a new pump lol IDk yet.
But thanks for info.

'Injector data' means all the tables, not just flow rate. Flow rate is the least important of the 4 main tables.

Okay, I was able to obtain some ZL1 tunes and also those for FSCM to review.

It seems that just installing a ZL1 pump is only part of the solution. I plan to adjust my SS pump fuel and FSCM pump settings to match the ZL1 ones. I believe this will provide some improvement.

I can already see differences, such as the Rail Pressure min for SS being 21.8psi and for ZL1 being 54.4psi. Additionally, the max desired pressure on SS starts at 65.3psi but then decreases with more flow, while on the ZL1, it remains constant at 65.3psi.

I think setting this to match the ZL1 pump should help somewhat. If it does, I can move on to the next thing and learn to set the injectors correctly.

The only thing I am concerned about is the FSCM update. It has the brick warning on it. I was planning to read ECM and TCM into one tune and then the FSCM in its own tune file. This way, I won't have to see or update FSCM since it defaults to update all the time.

I suppose I need to check if it's reading the FSCM and not creating a default one. Is that the warning? I've seen something like you need to get the default FSCM tune first and edit that. Has anyone updated a GM 5th gen FSCM by just reading, making a simple change, and updating?

OK made these changes and i think the Fuel PSI issue is resolved. But i will check again. using standalone mode does not look like it gets as much data spampling then when using laptop?

Changed SS settings to ZL1 settings for fuel pump since i have a ZL1 pump. Fuel PSI looks steady now over what it was. Does not drop to around 20psi like before. Lowest on this log run was 52.7 even at WOT. :yay:

It did feel more responcsive. but at higher RPM simething is still off. Its got to be becasue it was getting more gass now and its not set correctly for injectors and AFR. Hope to get some help one as it going for me to take time bymyself to learn it. just want it stable and not break anything. i can optizmize it in future if i can or pay someone if needed.

Note: T3.01 is just my code for Tune version 3.01.
T3.01_FSCM_OS-20812686_2012-Camaro_SS_A6
Fuel System / Fuel Control Module
\__ Pressure / Max Desired Pressure
\__ Fuel Pump / OpenLoop Fuel Pump DC, OpenLoop Fuel Pump DC Miltiplier, Minimum Fuel Pump DC

T3.01_ECM_E38_OS-1250236_TCM_T43_OS-24261871_2012-Camaro_SS_A6
Engine / Fuel /General / Injector Control
\__ Injector Control / Minimum Rail Pressure / Maximum Rail Pressure
Fuel System / Fuel Pressure
\__ Desired Fuel Pressure / High Flow Fuel Pressure

T3.01_FSCM_ECU_FuelPumpToZL1Settings Log file quick run
Attachment 140316

Tunes Files T3.01 my tune file 3.01_ECM_E38_OS-1250236_TCM_T43_OS-24261871_2012-Camaro_SS_A6
Attachment 140317
Attachment 140318

I guess now that this is set i would need to start setting the others settings. It's got to be off now. Just got cable to hook up Glowshift Wideband so i will get that done soon.

but from the log how does it look? what look like the new issue i got to resolve?

Also is is best to keep everything in this one post? or make a new one for the next issue?

STFT still shows very lean.

Why is PE so lean? You're at 12.7:1 commanded during boost. If you set PE richer like it needs to be you may find out that the fuel pump still can't keep up. Take advantage of the Boost Enrichment section.

Add a wideband to the log.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SiriusC1024

STFT still shows very lean.
Why is PE so lean? You're at 12.7:1 commanded during boost. If you set PE richer like it needs to be you may find out that the fuel pump still can't keep up. Take advantage of the Boost Enrichment section.
Add a wideband to the log.

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Thanks getting there. jsut got hardware for widewand for HPtuners. and learning when to look at first and then next.

Should stay out of boost until you get air/fuel correct.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SiriusC1024

Should stay out of boost until you get air/fuel correct.

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I will try :pray:


Also was told i had FAST 85lb injectors. Last cleaning shows them about 90lb/h.
Couple of people here said to use FIC 850 data. Others have said Deatsch Werks #16U-00-0065-8 injector info in other older posts.
So i made a tune for each.


I got the GM Calibration for Deatsch Werks #16U-00-0065-8 injector from https://deatschwerks.com/products/16u-00-0065-8
4 main tables updated in ECM
GM Offsets - Injector Offset vs. Pressure Delta vs. IGNV
GM Flow - Injector Flow Rate vs. Pressure Delta
GM SPA - Short Pulse Adder and limit
GM min PW - Minimum Injector Pulsewidth

1 main table updated in FSCM - others tables not found or issue. IDK if i will flash the FSCM just for this.
GM min PW - Minimum Injector Pulsewidth
GM Flow - Injector Flow Rate vs. Pressure, becasue its not same as ECM Injector Flow Rate vs. Pressure delta? Table match 100%
Issue in this one can not set this over 65.3 so I did not change it. from 48 to 119.8 in table!
But why?


I also got the data sheet FICLINIC_850H_GMDATA_HPTUNERS_WEBSITE from https://fuelinjectorclinic.com/HP-TUNERS-0850
4 main tables updated in ECM
OFFset - Injector Offset vs. Pressure Delta vs. IGNV
GM SPA - Short Pulse Adder and limit
Flow vs Pressure - Injector Flow Rate vs. Pressure Delta But can not set to sheet @ max 147. wont go over 127.0
GM min PW - Minimum Injector Pulsewidth


I guess i will test out the FICLINIC_850H_GMDATA first. it does seam higher thatn the other.
Also going to try to get wideband setup.