Compiling common Gen5 tune changes for Cam, Headers, Thermostat, and Catless

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GHuggins

There's actually several tables that need to be adjusted for it....

---

Can you list all the tables for a 2016 Camaro SS? Also does all the axis information need to match each table in the FSCM and ECM? SEe attached picture.

How much would the numbers vary for a 2014 L83 with BTR 2nd stage truck cam?

Thanks.

This is showing what to change for the hpfp for cam lobe to make it deliver and run smooth - should help fix bucking caused by odd pressure spikes. You can use the hpfp pressure settings if you like, but will require A LOT of reshaping of other tables to correspond. BUT if you do, you'll be 100x happier ;) Just grabbed Dominatorstang's calibration to demonstrate.

I may or may not do some write ups for gen v stuff as there are a few things including the torque model calculator that really doesn't seem to be working correctly and requires hand modding of "select" tables in hpt to get things like timing and torque to go more in line with what you want, but I've been going in behind some pretty big name shops to fix stuff that's very time involved so not sure yet.

Anyway - use at your own risk....

For the fuel lobe I had

Quote:

---

Fuel System>Fuel Pump>Injection Refill - scaled y axis for edge angle for 14% fuel lobe on cam

---

under cam changes in the first post. But as GHuggins points out, it can be done much better in the way he shows. The Y axis method came to me from a few posts on here as another common method being used too.

P.S. After countless weeks of fine tuning some things on my tune and struggling with other things on it, I contacted GHuggins and had him take over doing my tune. His changes have greatly helped drivability, MPG, and power across the board compared to what I had come up with. The list I put together in the first post I feel is still great to get started on self tuning with similar mods. But I have learned working with GHuggins that it only lightly scratches the surface on what an in-depth truly optimized tune offers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GHuggins

This is showing what to change for the hpfp for cam lobe to make it deliver and run smooth - should help fix bucking caused by odd pressure spikes. You can use the hpfp pressure settings if you like, but will require A LOT of reshaping of other tables to correspond. BUT if you do, you'll be 100x happier ;) Just grabbed Dominatorstang's calibration to demonstrate.

---

.

How do these hpfp changes relate to other fuel lobe sizes? similar for bigger or smaller than the cam referenced?
And what other tables are you referring to? I would like to be 100x happier, just trying to understand how deep the down the rabbit hole this would send me..

Good stuff though, Thank you! :cheers:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Klingballs

.

just trying to understand how deep the down the rabbit hole this would send me..

---

Believe it or not - you're going to have to do a whole other level of an OE in depth re-tune!!! HPFP settings are going to change EVERYTHING from torque, air and spark models to other stuff like idle, dfco and fuel multiplier controls. With more pressure you can typically run more timing, but things like torque modeling and ESPECIALLY DI fuel timing have to be really close to ideal. Is it worth it in the end - oh hell yeah. Is it going to take a lot of time and make you learn a thing or two you only thought you knew - you can bet your ass ;)

The main changes you need to make just for the lobe are the leading, trailing and pressure dc... You can run stock hpfp settings if you want and then you wouldn't have to worry about doing the full re-tune. If that's all your after... Also watch out on certain yr models - certain ones don't like to have the pulsewidth values changed without throwing them into rep...

Quote:

---

VVT effect on virtual torque and VVE - I am not to this step yet, but set a constant valve timing degree and use logs to tune VVE and virtual torque tables at that degree.

---

Curious what ever happened with this? Did you ever set a fixed cam retard and tune, specifically around VVE? I've noticed on my E92 from a 2016 Camaro that it appears VVE can only be edited at 0 degree intake. I figure the best approach would be zero out the desired angle high table and tune from there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liviner

Curious what ever happened with this? Did you ever set a fixed cam retard and tune, specifically around VVE? I've noticed on my E92 from a 2016 Camaro that it appears VVE can only be edited at 0 degree intake. I figure the best approach would be zero out the desired angle high table and tune from there.

---

If I'm understanding this correctly you're asking if you can pretty much just set it up to use the one VVE table by killing the others by 0ing out the corresponding coefficient tables for cam movement - short answer - yes - BUT only do this is you're running a fixed cam as it will drive and operate better by maintaining an OE setup and as far as that goes, you shouldn't even need to 0 it out then as the ecm technically shouldn't be using any of the other tables anyway.

Now if you're not running a fixed cam and you want a truly OE level tune - lock the cam at 0 via the tune - tune in your 0 VE table and I do mean TUNE it in whether you have to keep it in lower gears and rev it out or play in it a little to get as many odd by cells as possible. After doing this what I've found to work the best is to keep a 0 position fuel error log for reference and then using the coefficient tables - dial your other cam positions VE tables in to roughly the same fuel errors. Personally I get the 0 position VVE and then just use the error differences to rough in the coefficients to keep that close and then you can always skew things slightly on the 0 table to get a better average for all of the other positions. I really wish with everything HPT has done in these regards that they have made a way for the editor to properly calculate these tables as educated guesses are about as good as you can get with them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dominatorstang

I am trying to compile common tune changes that have become a standard for Gen V with a few common mods. At the same time I am just learning from my research and testing some theories to get my tune dialed in. Here is what I have so far. Please help add and let me know if you see something is a miss.

Big thanks, in no exact order goes out to ghuggins, smokeshow, Higgs Boson, Ben Charles, 5FDP, kevin87turbot, TriPinTaz, lt1z350, cadillactech, cmitchell17 and many others that I am forgetting to mention here. Reading through your posts and/or direct help is how I came up with this list.

Specs
2017 Silverado E92A L86 8L90 3.42gears only tuning ECM (TCM still locked and stock converter)
Cam: BTR Stage 2 - 210/223, .540"/.540", 111 LSA, 14% fuel lobe (stock springs, push rods, rockers, 20deg limiter)
Speed Engineering 1-7/8 long tubes with catless Y pipe (stock muffler)
Hone on stock bore, new Speed pro stock replacement pistons and GM rings
194deg thermostat - was motorad thermostat but started opening very late after 2 months, allowed up to 250degF. Using Murry now but may actually be same company...

Common Issues after a cam install
surging idle - virtual torque and airflow calibration are the two main places to address this.
negative spark at idle - virtual torque model and possibly VVE needing adjustments.
excessive fuel trims at idle - goes back to both the above.

Base Tune
Changes made for cam
Engine>Idle>RPM - added 200 to Base, Rolling, P/N, In Gear (may lower a little when tuning). update: 700-750 recommended idle for this cam.
Engine>Idle>Torque>Limit Offset - bump up around 20% to give bigger window to get it running
Engine>Idle>Torque>External Load - many areas need lowered some, the main idle areas may need cut down to ~25% of original value
Engine>Airflow>General>Cranking Base Airflow - subtract 2
Engine>Airflow>General>Cranking VE Primary - set to 80% for now to get it started easier
Engine>Fuel>Lean/Fuel-Saving - disabled DOD
Fuel System>Fuel Pump>Injection Refill - scaled y axis for edge angle for 14% fuel lobe on cam
Virtual Torque - lowered torque numbers by 40 around idle and smoothed out transition
Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft - zero them out for base tune. Tune with set degrees later to dial in VVE and VT tables

Changes made for no cats
Engine>Exhaust>Catalyst - high number in min ECT and low number in max ECT to disable catalyst warmup
Engine>Fuel>General - disabled split pulse crank
Engine>Fuel>Temperature Control - disable Catalyst Protection
DTC's to disable - P0036,37,38,54,56,57,58,60,137,138,13A,13B,13C,13D ,13E,13F,141,14A,14B,157,158,161,420,430,2096,2097 ,2098,2099,2270,2271,2272,2273

Changes made for long tube headers
Engine>Fuel>Oxygen Sensors>Integral Delay>Airflow Mode - bump up 20% for O2 sensors moving downstream a little
Engine>Fuel>Oxygen Sensors>Proportional>Airflow Mode reduce 10%
Engine>Fuel>Oxygen Sensors>Proportional>Limit change to 1.25
Engine>Spark>Knock Sensors - upped cyl number threshold multipliers

Changes made for 194deg thermostat
-Fan systems>Fans>Mechanical thermostat set to 194 (was already set there even though I read stock thermostat is 207...)
-Fan systems>Fans>Control by ECT>Desired ECT - was set for 195 and 222, changed the 222's to 200
-Fan systems>Fans>Control by %>Desired % - bumped up fans speeds to come up sooner.

General Changes to help with tuning
Engine>Fuel>Oxygen Sensors>LTFT Idle Cells Thresholds>Enable VSS=255, Disable VSS=256. This will help with fuel trim issue when entering DFCO.
disable flex fuel if virtual so it will not throw calibration off during tune
disable LTFT's

Tune from log results
I read that cold air intakes will pretty well require MAF calibration
calibrate MAF and VVE - Popular method for MAF+GMVE and suggests Steady state filters https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ation-for-gen4
Spark advance
Virtual Torque - log delivered torque on a MAP graph and on a Airmass graph side by side. Now review log and see what cells correspond. Shift and adjust VT table to match.
Engine>Idle>RPM>Adaptive Idle>Speed Control>Immediate and Predicated - may need some fine tuning to not over correct or under correct
Engine>Idle>Torque>Adaptive Idle>Idle Torque Limit>External load - log zero pedal torque into this table
VVT limiter - command 25deg advance to verify how far it can go (only if you installed correct limiter to prevent over travel!). Now you also know max travel for tune.
VVT effect on virtual torque and VVE - I am not to this step yet, but set a constant valve timing degree and use logs to tune VVE and virtual torque tables at that degree.
Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft - fine tune angle table and the WOT angle.

Unsure about these
?Engine Diagnostics>Misfire>Cylinder Mode and SCD Mode - need to adjust for cam, maybe raise all 10% or just idle areas?
?Tune with EVAP unhooked - I have trouble getting a consistent calibration with EVAP hooked up...
?Fuel>General>SOI Base - I see some say to lower to a given number, others matching to cam event, others raising. So not sure...
?Engine>Idle>Torque>Speed Control Reserve - I read cutting this in half will help with transmission clunk when slowing down and then speeding up.
?TCM tune - probably would help to raise shifts and such to match cam but not planned at this time with the cost of unlock and license. Will if needed though.
?watchout for rich decel messing with fuel trim logs - best I could do was try to filter it out in charts and driving.

---

Can you post the math parameters with the steady state filters you use for tuning the VVE?

Here is the filter I was using and fairly sure it came from another member on this forum, just can not remember who to give credit for it. If GHuggins gets a chance to chime in then he may offer a filter that he has refined out too.

[2517.161.avg(1500)]=0 and [2517.161.avg(-200)]=0 and (abs([50090.156.slope(1500)])+abs([50090.156.slope(-500)]))<2 and ([6310]=9 OR [6310]=14 OR [6310]=15)=0

Gen 4 Dyn Air thread going on right now. New formulas and filters in there.

GREAT thread and great help here - it's what I used to tune my Gen V for headers, cam, with DOD and VVT delete!
Love the choppy 900RPM idle, never stalls, WOT always 99.6% throttle and spark where I set it, 28MPG hiway at 80MPH - I love it.

SOI table adjusted for valve events with fixed timing cuz no VVT, and to center the squirt based on how long injectors open for different loads/rpms.
I started with VVE and VVE adjusted up from stock based on % dyno chart changes between stock and headers/cam, I've changed those back to stock >1200RPM.

Now that I've been driving it a couple of months I do have a couple of questions:

• really smell raw gas behind the car at idle - Commanded lambda is 1, wide band shows 1, is it because it's DI?
• VVE and VT are now both stock again above 1200RPM but at WOT, commanded lambda is 0.85 but wideband still shows 0.79 - I've been unsuccessful causing any change in wideband reading. Should I play with SOI, could the injector be spraying too late or early?

Your SOI table isn't changing for load. It's the same with light load as it is with full load.

Your mpg's are impressive. Personally I prefer to dial the VE in, but part of the reason for your mpg's is you're causing a lean cruise condition with the VE being raised up above actuality. This is actually causing the throttle to be held open slightly via the torque model. Up to you on whether or not to dial it in.

Focus on the soi - maybe run an altered stock version based along the lines of your current changes?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GHuggins

Your SOI table isn't changing for load. It's the same with light load as it is with full load.

Your mpg's are impressive. Personally I prefer to dial the VE in, but part of the reason for your mpg's is you're causing a lean cruise condition with the VE being raised up above actuality. This is actually causing the throttle to be held open slightly via the torque model. Up to you on whether or not to dial it in.

Focus on the soi - maybe run an altered stock version based along the lines of your current changes?

---

Really appreciate your feedback!
wideband shows dithering around lambda 1 at cruise so i feel like I'm good there, right?

but I looked at SOI, you're right!, low load is the same as hi load, I only accounted for RPM so I will redo it and let you know, thanks so much!

Attachment 137070

Something about how the torque model makes things work. A fine example is to lower the model a bunch or raise it - doesn't really matter - just needs to change a decent amount - it'll still run at a lambda of 1, but will require you to change your fueling. I don't understand it. Not at all, but I've used this in a different method to do the same thing and I know others do this in their tunes constantly with the VE tables for the same reason but it basically makes the engine hold the throttle open with less pedal causing it to run slightly leaner and with slightly more timing. I've been able to get stock 6.2 trucks with a cai mod up in the high 20's doing the same method, again just from a different attack point.

When the engine is mechanically modified it's harder to do. Pretty much only way to do it is with the VE being falsified. Personally I still prefer to dial everything in. Seems to do better all the way around.

I know this is an older thread but I'm curious what these changes do and why its needed.

Changes made for long tube headers
Engine>Fuel>Oxygen Sensors>Integral Delay>Airflow Mode - bump up 20% for O2 sensors moving downstream a little
Engine>Fuel>Oxygen Sensors>Proportional>Airflow Mode reduce 10%
Engine>Fuel>Oxygen Sensors>Proportional>Limit change to 1.25
Engine>Spark>Knock Sensors - upped cyl number threshold multipliers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dadrunr1726

I know this is an older thread but I'm curious what these changes do and why its needed.

Changes made for long tube headers
Engine>Fuel>Oxygen Sensors>Integral Delay>Airflow Mode - bump up 20% for O2 sensors moving downstream a little
Engine>Fuel>Oxygen Sensors>Proportional>Airflow Mode reduce 10%
Engine>Fuel>Oxygen Sensors>Proportional>Limit change to 1.25
Engine>Spark>Knock Sensors - upped cyl number threshold multipliers

---

In short:
First three improve the narrowband switching response due to moving the location of the sensors vs stock manifolds.
Last one helps prevent false knock because thin headers can be noisier than thick stock manifolds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RobZL1

In short:
First three improve the narrowband switching response due to moving the location of the sensors vs stock manifolds.
Last one helps prevent false knock because thin headers can be noisier than thick stock manifolds.

---

Okay. I've had my headers and hf cats on for over 4 years with the factory the oxygen sensor settings. Debating if should go ahead do this and if I would notice anything by doing so. Thank you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dadrunr1726

Okay. I've had my headers and hf cats on for over 4 years with the factory the oxygen sensor settings. Debating if should go ahead do this and if I would notice anything by doing so. Thank you

---

Engine>Fuel>Oxygen Sensors>Integral Delay>Airflow Mode - bump up 20% for O2 sensors moving downstream a little
Engine>Fuel>Oxygen Sensors>Proportional>Airflow Mode reduce 10%
Engine>Fuel>Oxygen Sensors>Proportional>Limit change to 1.25


Information on this subject is closely guarded and you will not find it here. I do know the starting points listed above for n/a car with cai/long tubes is NOT the way, maybe for boost, but NOT for N/A. Start with adding 20% to P and I. Go up in 10% increments from there. Your throttle response will tell you when it's really close, then you can fine tune individual tables/cells. Limit at 1.25 is fine because it does nothing until you get down to the .0x range. It's a huge pita and difficult to log, but definitely worth it.

How much did you change for this?

Engine>Spark>Knock Sensors - upped cyl number threshold multipliers