Driver Demand Wheel & Engine vs engine rpm vs tq?

Well finally getting back to tinkering on the F-150 (06) before I toss the Vortech on this spring. And I've been trying to figure out the "driver demand" stuff. And pretty much every file I download there different, Like the Mustangs, Shelby's, even the different year F-150's. My question is how do you "tune" these maps or is one setup/ cal file better to use vs another?

My current Cal file is included. Which is actually the stage 2 edge tune that was in the truck. I couldn't find my stock F-150 tune to compare to unfortunately. Thoughts? Suggestions?

Attachment 42737 Current File in truck: Attachment 42737

Driver demand is pretty simple. They are responsible for "pedal feel". In other words, once you get the tune dialed in, you will adjust this to get the part throttle performance the way you want it. Be very careful adjusting the numbers up, as you can create a condition where the vehicle can drive itself (run away throttle).

That's what I'm worried about. It already acts "different" IE I can watch the vac gauge, press the pedal and it'll shoot up near 0 vac then shoot back down and level out. It seems almost really touchy but only for a second then levels out. But every throttle position movement then will almost make it seem to over compensate. Just not sure if it's the nature of the beast or not. I'm not used to looking at how a drive by wire throttle acts. But I would have assumed it would be just as smooth as a cable style.

Post your stock, and modified file and I'll take a look. It should be very smooth.

The modified File is in the first post. And i'll have to dig up my stock one since I've switched computers. It does look a little up and down at spots compared to other files I've seen.

It's just hard to think that the Edge tune would be so cruddy. But then again when I bought my Supra it also was "tuned" at a shop... Took me a few days to get it sorted out where it actually drive nice. So I guess I can't really go by name or reputation lol

I did tinker with other trans stuff but the drive by wire stuff was as-is.

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Originally Posted by Turbofox

It's just hard to think that the Edge tune would be so cruddy. But then again when I bought my Supra it also was "tuned" at a shop... Took me a few days to get it sorted out where it actually drive nice. So I guess I can't really go by name or reputation lol

I did tinker with other trans stuff but the drive by wire stuff was as-is.

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You have to be careful, if you command too much torque or more than it can make it will go wot at a very low throttle setting

Might be just the quick way they make it "snappy" I think i'll find a Cobra or some other stock but "performance" tune and take a look/change my numbers to match the Mustang's. As long as they are within reason of each other and see how it drives compared to whats in there now.

I miss pedal=throttle angle lol

Here's the stock tune as well guys.

There are definitely some goofy changes in this tune. I would return the driver demand tables back to stock. Return the Indicated Engine Torque table back to stock. Same with the Friction torque table. There is no reason any of this should be changed on a stock tune. The ETC Torque Rate limiting is what really makes these trucks feel sluggish stock, and definitely doesn't feel like a cable driven throttle body. The parameter ETC Tip-In Torque Rate Max vs. N/V vs. Slip Ratio (located in Engine > Torque Management > ETC Torque Management is what controls the rate the torque output can change. Setting this table to the max value across the board will make the truck feel much closer to how a traditional cable driven throttle body vehicle feels. This will effectively eliminate the delay. So the torque output will be totally based on the driver demand request.

You can also lower the Pedal Pos WOT Start value to get the feel you want. This is the start point for blending into WOT.

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Originally Posted by Eric@HPTuners

You can also lower the Pedal Pos WOT Start value to get the feel you want. This is the start point for blending into WOT.

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Can you elaborate on what you mean by "blending into WOT"? I've been really curious how this works lately.

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Originally Posted by Exley

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "blending into WOT"? I've been really curious how this works lately.

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Sure.

It will use a Driver Demand table until it reaches the Pedal Pos WOT Start value. At that point, the throttle will open linear in relation to pedal position until you reach the Pedal Pos WOT End value, then the throttle is at WOT.

It's probably more correct to adjust the driver demand to get the feel you want, but lowering the start value does also increase the throttle opening % vs pedal input.

Sounds like that's a good place to start then. I did actually copy over one from a blown mustang (drive demand engine table was the only one that was used) and it drives much better. Also lowered the WOT start to 300.

What do I have to change the other WOT setting to? the original tune just has it the same as WOT start. So I would think they should just both be the same.

Also there is the option to change the tables (Normal, Wheel, Engine) Should both the wheel and engine TQ maps read the same? Or should I just change it to the engine one and use that?

I've never adjusted the endpoint, usually it is set to a value that is close to where I would want the car to be at WOT.

I'd leave that switch alone. You can use it to make it use the Engine or Wheel torque table exclusively.

In all of the never stuff, there is no longer a wheel torque table, its all using engine torque.

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Originally Posted by Eric@HPTuners

Sure.

It will use a Driver Demand table until it reaches the Pedal Pos WOT Start value. At that point, the throttle will open linear in relation to pedal position until you reach the Pedal Pos WOT End value, then the throttle is at WOT.

It's probably more correct to adjust the driver demand to get the feel you want, but lowering the start value does also increase the throttle opening % vs pedal input.

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Thanks! That helps a lot

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Originally Posted by Eric@HPTuners

I've never adjusted the endpoint, usually it is set to a value that is close to where I would want the car to be at WOT.

I'd leave that switch alone. You can use it to make it use the Engine or Wheel torque table exclusively.

In all of the never stuff, there is no longer a wheel torque table, its all using engine torque.

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Thanks for the help Eric! Finally getting a chance to get back to playing with it. Been hit hard with all the snow and 20deg weather.

I do have a question on the WOT, I also have a WOT Enable that was originally the same number as the WOT start number. Should they be the same yet even with the lower WOT start number?

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Originally Posted by Turbofox

Thanks for the help Eric! Finally getting a chance to get back to playing with it. Been hit hard with all the snow and 20deg weather.

I do have a question on the WOT, I also have a WOT Enable that was originally the same number as the WOT start number. Should they be the same yet even with the lower WOT start number?

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What are you working on? It can be setup a few different ways. They can be the same or different. If it is the same, then there is no blend into WOT. It would rely more on the driver demand table that way.

You can have a look here also:
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...254#post297254

i have another issue, not big problem, but I was curious if there is way to correct this, maybe You can help.
On idle if I I want change rpm's slowly, if I hit throttle only bit, it revs usually too much, it's very difficult to stabilize rpms at what I want.
Settings DDE table makes it better or worts, never as should. But if I change it to pedal follower mode, rpms are where I want.
What I'm missing? Throttle calibration? Can has twin turbo and some extreme cams on it, but this has no matter, due stock GT has this same behavior.
European cars don't have it, so customer also don't want's this.

What throttle body is on the car?

I'm curious how does it drive with Throttle Follower mode enabled? I have never tried this.

On this is GT500 TB.
Predicted throttle and effective areas are from GT500 copied with axis values.

It drives like cable:) No hassle with any throttle tuning, but throws some throttle acutator error, which I disabled for test.
I'm not sure if it safe for DD, I checked in meantime if it reacts on throttle blade lock, it is throwing another errors, so looks it may work.